Hi Guys,
I am still in possession of my Gamma 2.5ie and after many months and two new fuel pumps of trying to get it started, it's going! Bad earth all along...
I abandoned the reaplcement engine idea, I would want to keep it original and have had no problems in covering 1,000 miles. But the other day I let the car tick over as it hadn't been used for a few days and the temperature needle went as far as one mark before the red and the fan struggled to kick in and the expansion tank filled to nearly the top, youcould hear it hissing at me and only after turning the engine off and leaving it for 2 minutes did the fans kick back in... What could cause this? I have been told that the water pump shouldn't of done this, so so far I have ruled this out, could be stuck thermostat?
How easy is it to wire in an override switch for the fan but still maintain it's regular cutting in and out?
I was wondering if anyone had undertaken an engine rebuild, so to speak, I am considering doing the head gaskets although there appears to be nothing wrong, no white smoke or oil in the expansion tank etc etc. Where can the gaskets be obtained, or alternatively could another gasket be made from the sheet gaskets that are available through searching the net?
Would be good to hear some thoughts from you guys again, it's always appreciated and helpful and im forever panicing over it's reliability lol
CJ
2.5ie engine (again)
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gamma as in goat
Re: 2.5ie engine (again)
i am looking forward to reading the replies; as are, perhaps, many Gammisti
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Ruud
Re: 2.5ie engine (again)
Hi CJ,
Peculiar problem. First I would think your headgasket leaks into the water system. Presurising your water system and blowing the air out and the water in the reservoir. It could be an air bubble in the system but this I expierenced only once and after replacing the engine and filling with water. Then the air bubble causes the temperature meter to hit the red quickly moving back and forward rapidly back to white again. In this case we put the heater and fan on max (Open the heating cirquit), squizing the hoses until the air is out. Did the water get blown out ? what was the temperature on Celcius scale ? If the fan kicks in there must be a circulation through the radiator but if the thermostat is "to slow" or broken this could be the cause. Do not ever overheat the engine above 100 degrees celcius "boiling" temperature. The headgasket can be bought at adresses below or Bielstein or Martin Willems. Do not use a self made gasket, you need the re-inforced original gaskets. The override switch is easy wired through the dashboard. Use a weld wire to guide a ground wire through the bulkhead (Under the hood where the plastic tube from the oilstick goes trough) Open the dashcove rand use the (Unused) front fog light switch to ground the wire from the fan relay. Fan relay is mounted inside the left wing behind the airfilter.
Regards,
Ruud
Gamma Drivers Holland
www.xs4all.nl/~rudez
Peculiar problem. First I would think your headgasket leaks into the water system. Presurising your water system and blowing the air out and the water in the reservoir. It could be an air bubble in the system but this I expierenced only once and after replacing the engine and filling with water. Then the air bubble causes the temperature meter to hit the red quickly moving back and forward rapidly back to white again. In this case we put the heater and fan on max (Open the heating cirquit), squizing the hoses until the air is out. Did the water get blown out ? what was the temperature on Celcius scale ? If the fan kicks in there must be a circulation through the radiator but if the thermostat is "to slow" or broken this could be the cause. Do not ever overheat the engine above 100 degrees celcius "boiling" temperature. The headgasket can be bought at adresses below or Bielstein or Martin Willems. Do not use a self made gasket, you need the re-inforced original gaskets. The override switch is easy wired through the dashboard. Use a weld wire to guide a ground wire through the bulkhead (Under the hood where the plastic tube from the oilstick goes trough) Open the dashcove rand use the (Unused) front fog light switch to ground the wire from the fan relay. Fan relay is mounted inside the left wing behind the airfilter.
Regards,
Ruud
Gamma Drivers Holland
www.xs4all.nl/~rudez
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CJ
Re: 2.5ie engine (again)
Ruud,
Thank you for your response, it doesn't seem to me that it is head gasket, but then you can't help wondering... It has been well cared for and looked after and has documented service history, however the previous owner had put it on the road after a few years of standing without servcing and it was run like this for a few weeks but not for long journeys. I have never experienced a problem in that it has broken down on me, but I don't get to drive it very often as I work away alot. The temp meter rose to one bar before the red, but didn't seem to go any further, at this point I turned the engine off an waited maybe 30 seconds to a minute and the fan started to 'glitch' and then finally kicked back in. The water didn't boil over nor did it get blown out, but it did hiss a bit and the expansion tank rose to twice the level nearly to the top, once it had cooled it sank to below the level line and now after a few days it is sitting nicely on the level mark again, but I haven't started it since just in case and to get some feedback. Head gasket may be a bit of a panic thing as theres no white smoke or oil petal leafs in the expansion tank adn the oil pressure needle always sits firmly at 1/3rd on the dash board... How easy is it to remove the water pump? Then the thermostat? If the thermostat is gone, where can I get a replacement as I have been told that they are no longer available.
I have to flush the system through anyway as it's in the middle of being serviced, so as another point, where can I get the cam belts from? Again, how easy to do... I'm guessing not.
Lastly, could anyone help me with the correct paint for my car, the code I have is 678/F Grigio Chiaro Met that's according the bootlid trim panel and that is the grey metallic. Not one person has been able to to get close so far, even from paint chips. I've had one that's close but is too metallic and silvery. Starting to get a bit frustrated as I have paint chips on the front valance to attend too!
Thanks again,
CJ
Thank you for your response, it doesn't seem to me that it is head gasket, but then you can't help wondering... It has been well cared for and looked after and has documented service history, however the previous owner had put it on the road after a few years of standing without servcing and it was run like this for a few weeks but not for long journeys. I have never experienced a problem in that it has broken down on me, but I don't get to drive it very often as I work away alot. The temp meter rose to one bar before the red, but didn't seem to go any further, at this point I turned the engine off an waited maybe 30 seconds to a minute and the fan started to 'glitch' and then finally kicked back in. The water didn't boil over nor did it get blown out, but it did hiss a bit and the expansion tank rose to twice the level nearly to the top, once it had cooled it sank to below the level line and now after a few days it is sitting nicely on the level mark again, but I haven't started it since just in case and to get some feedback. Head gasket may be a bit of a panic thing as theres no white smoke or oil petal leafs in the expansion tank adn the oil pressure needle always sits firmly at 1/3rd on the dash board... How easy is it to remove the water pump? Then the thermostat? If the thermostat is gone, where can I get a replacement as I have been told that they are no longer available.
I have to flush the system through anyway as it's in the middle of being serviced, so as another point, where can I get the cam belts from? Again, how easy to do... I'm guessing not.
Lastly, could anyone help me with the correct paint for my car, the code I have is 678/F Grigio Chiaro Met that's according the bootlid trim panel and that is the grey metallic. Not one person has been able to to get close so far, even from paint chips. I've had one that's close but is too metallic and silvery. Starting to get a bit frustrated as I have paint chips on the front valance to attend too!
Thanks again,
CJ
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Ruud
Re: 2.5ie engine (again)
Hello,
Then it could be an air bubble, slow thermostat, defect sensor in radiator or faulty unit in the dash.
We have seen all off these. But to be sure you should measure the actual temperature in the system with a digital thermometer and compare it with the gauge. But hearing about the level in the xpansion it sounds like a bubble. But then when the bubble hits the sensor the gauge should swing back and forth. ???
The termostat/waterpump is not easy to demount. You need at least some "T-bar" tools (10) to reach the far hidden nuts. It's a bit a pain in the a^%. Then when you remove the pump you could saw off the thermostat and place only the flange back. Then on the top pod, the hose towards the radiator you can mount a cheap Renault 5 tube thermostat (15 EUR) and whenever it breaks down it's easy to replace. We do this mod a lot.
For the belts www.martinwillems.nl or in the UK www.gammaconsortium.com or www.lanciagammaforum.com or jackroman@aol.com.
Paint, difficult to get since thinner based paint is not legal anymore in Holland. But we got it from France or Poland, just with the original paint numner. Or is your paint faded (By sunlight) ?
Regards,
Ruud
Then it could be an air bubble, slow thermostat, defect sensor in radiator or faulty unit in the dash.
We have seen all off these. But to be sure you should measure the actual temperature in the system with a digital thermometer and compare it with the gauge. But hearing about the level in the xpansion it sounds like a bubble. But then when the bubble hits the sensor the gauge should swing back and forth. ???
The termostat/waterpump is not easy to demount. You need at least some "T-bar" tools (10) to reach the far hidden nuts. It's a bit a pain in the a^%. Then when you remove the pump you could saw off the thermostat and place only the flange back. Then on the top pod, the hose towards the radiator you can mount a cheap Renault 5 tube thermostat (15 EUR) and whenever it breaks down it's easy to replace. We do this mod a lot.
For the belts www.martinwillems.nl or in the UK www.gammaconsortium.com or www.lanciagammaforum.com or jackroman@aol.com.
Paint, difficult to get since thinner based paint is not legal anymore in Holland. But we got it from France or Poland, just with the original paint numner. Or is your paint faded (By sunlight) ?
Regards,
Ruud
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CJ
Re: 2.5ie engine (again)
Thanks for the info Ruud, well after several hours of tinkering... Problem solved! We flushed the system out, coolant was clean and looked like new, so no head gasket worry for sure. But, upon real inspection of the expansion tank the actual cap seal had perished and was therfore not pressurising the system. Since topping up and getting a new cap everythign is normal again, good response and temp, fan kicks in and keeps the needle just under one notch over the middle at tickover, oil pressure sits nicely at 1/3rd - basically everything is as normal.
I have tried recently to get hold of Jack Romano and had no luck, whether he is away or just plain busy. So that leaves me in a sticky for parts.
My paint may have faded as normal but it sits under cover through the winter, it gets polished regularly and is like glass. But I still need ot get hold of the correct paint to sort my front valance out.
Thanks again,
CJ
I have tried recently to get hold of Jack Romano and had no luck, whether he is away or just plain busy. So that leaves me in a sticky for parts.
My paint may have faded as normal but it sits under cover through the winter, it gets polished regularly and is like glass. But I still need ot get hold of the correct paint to sort my front valance out.
Thanks again,
CJ
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CJ
Re: 2.5ie engine (again)
THat did cross my mind, but I think it may look a bit odd. WHat I find annoying is that not even a motor factor or paint supply store can match the car to one of there 'paint chip books'
If anyone can help on this, would be greatly appreciated.
CJ
If anyone can help on this, would be greatly appreciated.
CJ
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gamma as in goat
Re: 2.5ie engine (again)
I may get stoned for this, but I've always thought that the Gamma Cuupe screams for a subtle front spoiler, to beef-up the lite-weight, too-high appearance of the front; both from head on & from the side. However, I've taken no steps to design one, so maybe you wish to do it ? Paint it matt-undercoat-stonecoat -protective black to reduce visibility the mod & then send us all photos, so we can copy it. Also, to a cw test, inform us of any increases in top speed, handling improvements & increased fuel economy. This is my bright idea of today. Also, this really shouldn't be in "engine (again)" Topic, but it is & now it is too late late to change it.
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Craig
Re: 2.5ie engine (again)
Lol,
I can possibly visulaize this, and probably have the facilities to do it, just sadly not the time!
Though, I have never been one for body styling in that way, even when it looks better than stock. Like the after market kits for the Alfa Romeos, 155, 156, 164 and 33 etc. Looks nice.
Regards,
CJ
I can possibly visulaize this, and probably have the facilities to do it, just sadly not the time!
Though, I have never been one for body styling in that way, even when it looks better than stock. Like the after market kits for the Alfa Romeos, 155, 156, 164 and 33 etc. Looks nice.
Regards,
CJ