Here is a site with a link that tells you what to do. OK it's not a lancia, but I suspect the alternator in question would fit.
http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?p=400206
S2 alternator replacement?
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Peter Cripps
Re: S2 alternator replacement?
Thanks to all.
I followed Michael's links and have finally found a car that was sold in the US with this alternator. It's the 1990 Daihatsu Charade SE. A range of replacement alternators shows up on the PartsAmerica website, priced around $140:
Hope the picture shows up, if not the URL is:
http://www.partsamerica.com/product_ima ... 5521-1.jpg
This looks very similar to the Powermaster 8172 alternator discussed above.
But ... in the meantime I've ordered another similar alternator, not quite the same. If it doesn't work out, I'll be going for the Daihatsu part.
Peter
I followed Michael's links and have finally found a car that was sold in the US with this alternator. It's the 1990 Daihatsu Charade SE. A range of replacement alternators shows up on the PartsAmerica website, priced around $140:
Hope the picture shows up, if not the URL is:
http://www.partsamerica.com/product_ima ... 5521-1.jpg
This looks very similar to the Powermaster 8172 alternator discussed above.
But ... in the meantime I've ordered another similar alternator, not quite the same. If it doesn't work out, I'll be going for the Daihatsu part.
Peter
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Shaun
Re: S2 alternator replacement?
Peter, nice detective work! I'll keep my eye out for Daihatsus.
Two questions:
1. Does your Series 1.5 have a belt driven fan, or an electric one? Converting to an alternator is on my list, and I'm wondering about the feasibility of adding the alternator while retaining the belt driven fan on my Series 1. If possible at all, I'm thinking it would require some pulley work.
2. Most of the small new alternators seem to put out more than the 30amps that the stock dynamo of the Series One (I don't know the output of the Series 2 Alternator). Should putting a 50-55 amp unit into a system designed for 30 amps raise any concerns?
I'm not an electrician by any stretch, but I'm wondering about the existing wiring harness is up to the task. I turned on the headlamps of my Austin Healey once, upon entering a tunnel, and was rewarded by a cloud of smoke and an all systems shutdown. That turned out to be due to a previous owner having used second hand lamp cord as a splice in the wiring harness, but the experience has left me with a bit of a general twitch regarding electrics.
Regards
Two questions:
1. Does your Series 1.5 have a belt driven fan, or an electric one? Converting to an alternator is on my list, and I'm wondering about the feasibility of adding the alternator while retaining the belt driven fan on my Series 1. If possible at all, I'm thinking it would require some pulley work.
2. Most of the small new alternators seem to put out more than the 30amps that the stock dynamo of the Series One (I don't know the output of the Series 2 Alternator). Should putting a 50-55 amp unit into a system designed for 30 amps raise any concerns?
I'm not an electrician by any stretch, but I'm wondering about the existing wiring harness is up to the task. I turned on the headlamps of my Austin Healey once, upon entering a tunnel, and was rewarded by a cloud of smoke and an all systems shutdown. That turned out to be due to a previous owner having used second hand lamp cord as a splice in the wiring harness, but the experience has left me with a bit of a general twitch regarding electrics.
Regards
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Peter Cripps
Re: S2 alternator replacement?
Shaun,
Everything to do with the front subframe in my Fulvia is S2. This includes the electric fan, so I'm afraid I can't answer your question #1 from direct experience. But I would have thought that with suitable engineering of the alternator brackets, spacers, etc., you would be able to arrange for the new alternator pulley to be in roughly the same position as the present generator.
Mind you, I think Huib posted recently a modification to the generator/dynamo that improved performance to the level that changing to an alternator maybe wasn't worthwhile. On the other hand, I daresay Huib doesn't have the array of lighting equipment that adorns the front of your Fulvia!
As far as current output rating is concerned, there's no problem. The new alternators have internal regulation which ensures that just enough current is generated to keep the battery at about 14V. There's a big fat wire that goes from alternator to starter and then to the battery, but the rest of the electrical system doesn't really know the difference.
I won't comment on your AH experience, apart from saying that the Prince of Darkness is blamed for far more automotive malfunctions than is really justified. Lamp cord indeed!
Peter
Everything to do with the front subframe in my Fulvia is S2. This includes the electric fan, so I'm afraid I can't answer your question #1 from direct experience. But I would have thought that with suitable engineering of the alternator brackets, spacers, etc., you would be able to arrange for the new alternator pulley to be in roughly the same position as the present generator.
Mind you, I think Huib posted recently a modification to the generator/dynamo that improved performance to the level that changing to an alternator maybe wasn't worthwhile. On the other hand, I daresay Huib doesn't have the array of lighting equipment that adorns the front of your Fulvia!
As far as current output rating is concerned, there's no problem. The new alternators have internal regulation which ensures that just enough current is generated to keep the battery at about 14V. There's a big fat wire that goes from alternator to starter and then to the battery, but the rest of the electrical system doesn't really know the difference.
I won't comment on your AH experience, apart from saying that the Prince of Darkness is blamed for far more automotive malfunctions than is really justified. Lamp cord indeed!
Peter
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Shaun
Re: S2 alternator replacement?
Peter,
Re Huib's innovation, are you referring to the solid state ex-VW Bosch regulator? I'm already using one of those, after an afternoon I spent a year or so ago with a friendly parts guy going through his stock. He now proudly tells everyone that he carries Lancia replacement parts.
And the current system has no trouble keeping the system charged when I'm using the fog or driving lights.
The only reason I'm interested in an alternator is its ability to charge at lower RPMs than a dynamo is capable of. My Fulvia is a daily driver, and a few times last winter I had to put the car on the battery charger in the evening, after slogging home from San Francisco in the dark and rain in bumper to bumper traffic. The combination of headlamps + wipers + heater fan + low RPMs for an hour or so = inadequate charging.
Under less bleak conditions, the dynamo works fine. And the battery is/was new and otherwise working well. I don't fault Lancia; I think that coping with urban driving conditions today (e.g. more vehicles on the road; longer commutes) was simply not part of their Fulvia design brief in the sixties. But I also note that they switched over to alternators fairly quickly, and so it may be sensible for me to follow that lead for my daily driver.
Last, I certainly didn't intend to blame Lucas for finding myself coasting at speed, in a dark tunnel, and apparently on fire in my AH. I think that much/most of Lucas' bad rep truly lies in the tool boxes of clueless or careless owners.
Re Huib's innovation, are you referring to the solid state ex-VW Bosch regulator? I'm already using one of those, after an afternoon I spent a year or so ago with a friendly parts guy going through his stock. He now proudly tells everyone that he carries Lancia replacement parts.
And the current system has no trouble keeping the system charged when I'm using the fog or driving lights.
The only reason I'm interested in an alternator is its ability to charge at lower RPMs than a dynamo is capable of. My Fulvia is a daily driver, and a few times last winter I had to put the car on the battery charger in the evening, after slogging home from San Francisco in the dark and rain in bumper to bumper traffic. The combination of headlamps + wipers + heater fan + low RPMs for an hour or so = inadequate charging.
Under less bleak conditions, the dynamo works fine. And the battery is/was new and otherwise working well. I don't fault Lancia; I think that coping with urban driving conditions today (e.g. more vehicles on the road; longer commutes) was simply not part of their Fulvia design brief in the sixties. But I also note that they switched over to alternators fairly quickly, and so it may be sensible for me to follow that lead for my daily driver.
Last, I certainly didn't intend to blame Lucas for finding myself coasting at speed, in a dark tunnel, and apparently on fire in my AH. I think that much/most of Lucas' bad rep truly lies in the tool boxes of clueless or careless owners.
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Peter Cripps
Re: S2 alternator replacement?
OK Shaun, all understood. Yes, that VW regulator was the upgrade I was thinking of. And it does sound as if an alternator upgrade is worth doing on your car.
I'll let you know how I get on with my installation.
Peter
I'll let you know how I get on with my installation.
Peter
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Huib Geurink
Re: S2 alternator replacement?
Quite a few have replaced the dynamo with an alternator on the series 1. This is relatively easy.But none has done it as far as I know with maintaining the belt driven fan.
I have looked at the conversion but not done nor tried it. I am sure that one could fabricate a double pulley and mounting brackets etc. Because of the double pulley the alternator has to be moved backward which gives an interference problem with the fuel pump which has to be replaced by an electric one. All in all so much work and probably some unexpected too that I was happy to find a good regulator.
Slow traffic for an hour or so in dark and rain is just over the limit of the capabilities ot the dynamo. It requires power management such as minimizing use of wiper and heater fan, switching to city lights when the traffic is real slow or standing still.
I would try the use of LED lights for the tail/brake light, dashboard lights and other lighting.
Install a 60Ah battery.
Get the regulator to produce 14.2 or even 14.4 volts.
Make sure 4 head lights cannot go on at the same time.
Use duplo outer headlights and use the 40/45 watt halogen equivalent of the duplo bulb.
Possibly a larger (S2) pulley on the crankshaft.
Higher idle.
This would not work if you have no change of fully charging the battery occasionally.
Mounting a 55 amp alternator is possible. As Peter says only the wiring between alternator and battery has to be able to handle the higher current. By wiring the alternator output to the starter motor you can keep the wire short. Íf you would use the higher power continuously you will get a problem with the V belt which is only good up to 40 - 45 amps continuously.
I have looked at the conversion but not done nor tried it. I am sure that one could fabricate a double pulley and mounting brackets etc. Because of the double pulley the alternator has to be moved backward which gives an interference problem with the fuel pump which has to be replaced by an electric one. All in all so much work and probably some unexpected too that I was happy to find a good regulator.
Slow traffic for an hour or so in dark and rain is just over the limit of the capabilities ot the dynamo. It requires power management such as minimizing use of wiper and heater fan, switching to city lights when the traffic is real slow or standing still.
I would try the use of LED lights for the tail/brake light, dashboard lights and other lighting.
Install a 60Ah battery.
Get the regulator to produce 14.2 or even 14.4 volts.
Make sure 4 head lights cannot go on at the same time.
Use duplo outer headlights and use the 40/45 watt halogen equivalent of the duplo bulb.
Possibly a larger (S2) pulley on the crankshaft.
Higher idle.
This would not work if you have no change of fully charging the battery occasionally.
Mounting a 55 amp alternator is possible. As Peter says only the wiring between alternator and battery has to be able to handle the higher current. By wiring the alternator output to the starter motor you can keep the wire short. Íf you would use the higher power continuously you will get a problem with the V belt which is only good up to 40 - 45 amps continuously.
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Peter Cripps
Re: S2 alternator replacement?
Just to close this off ... the replacement alternator is in, all working fine. It's a rebuilt Mitsubishi unit, found on e-bay. Required some creative engineering of brackets, spacers, bushings, etc., but I tell myself that's all part of the fun!
The thought did cross my mind that if I was charging myself an hourly rate, I could have bought one of the Omicron rebuilt units several times over ...
Peter
The thought did cross my mind that if I was charging myself an hourly rate, I could have bought one of the Omicron rebuilt units several times over ...
Peter
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Shaun
Re: S2 alternator replacement?
Peter,
Glad to hear that your Fulvia's now charging!
And thank you for taking the trouble to follow through and post your outcome. I'm afraid that we're going to drive some future Viva-Lancia web archaeologist positively mad with all the threads that don't show a conclusion.
Regards
Glad to hear that your Fulvia's now charging!
And thank you for taking the trouble to follow through and post your outcome. I'm afraid that we're going to drive some future Viva-Lancia web archaeologist positively mad with all the threads that don't show a conclusion.
Regards