Oil leak

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ncundy
Posts: 92
Joined: 22 Dec 2008, 00:47

Re: Oil leak

Unread post by ncundy »

Lack of oil consumption is not a good indicator to be used for oil change periodicity. The real advantage of synthetic is it's stable lubrication properties and wide (or more correctly tunable) viscosity range. But oil consumption is not really a reason for dictating an oil change, other than the obvious of making sure you don't run out of oil! The real reason for changing an oil is that its vicosity deteriorates and that it has additives that act as detergents, suspension agents and neutralisers of the combustion products. These get "used up" or become"full" over time.

As synthetics have a more stable viscosity, from that point of view you can run them longer. As you can design them to be receptive of a multitude of additives without altering the stable viscosity they will last longer. But longer than what? Well, really only longer than a non synthetic oil in the same application. If you have a worn engine with bad rings allowing blowby, or incorrect carburation leading to fuel dillution for instance, even with zero oil leaks you may need to change it sooner rather than later.

I work in an industry where we do regular oil sampling as overstepping the mark can lead to six figure bills. That said, for us that isn't an option (unless someone works for Shell !) so passing on experience is the key.

Personally I think 2000 miles is way too conservative in terms of miles - but yearly is sensible especially if the car isn't used particularly regularly. With changes in temperature condensation forms in the crankcase even when in the garage and this ends up in the oil and "uses up" the additive (usually a calcium compound) that enables the oil to absorb water. When this is used up the excess water reduces the viscosity (not to mention corroding the bearings - thrust bearings are particularly susceptable to this in my experience, probably because of their location).

A leak is a leak - if it can be solved with a different type of oil then brilliant. But it shouldn't have any effect on oil change frequency. All you need to do is top it up, a little bit of new oil every week - total loss systems have their advantages ;)
Huib
Site Admin
Posts: 1857
Joined: 17 Dec 2008, 10:12

Re: Oil leak

Unread post by Huib »

I was also brought up as a good Roman Catholic. If there is no difference between the official view and daily practice, something must be wrong.

I do about 45.000 km per year with Tina. So I change in less than a year. In Elena I use the same oil but change every year. Well, almost. Sounds like a confession. You will give me absolution? Will you?

If you have no leakage there is no need to go to 3 esters. Esters are very expensive. It will therefore always be written on the can in capitals if the oil has 3 esters.

The synthetic oil would probably last a lot longer. The proper procedure would be to take a sample and have it analyzed. I find it easier to just put in new oil. Remember that mineral oils degrade slowly but synthetic oils suddenly stop completely to behave like oil although they retain there initial properties longer.
lancialulu
Posts: 244
Joined: 21 Dec 2008, 19:53

Re: Oil leak

Unread post by lancialulu »

Interesting as my Merc E240 determined its service intervals on the quality of its oil.

I made this "discovery" when with 3000 miles to go to the next service (as displayed on switch on), I stopped for fuel and decided I ought to check the oil level. As I had not checked since the service (8000 miles earlier) I found it need about a pint of oil which Iduly poured in. On switching on again it announced that I could now wait till 5500 miles for the next service. This happened every time I put oil in. My new merc overides with a calender (drat) and is 83 days overdue....

Tim

PS I try to change oil in my 3 fulvias every year but I confess (not RC so no hail mary's or what ever) sometimes I dont.....
ncundy
Posts: 92
Joined: 22 Dec 2008, 00:47

Re: Oil leak

Unread post by ncundy »

The company I used to work for used to be part of Daimler and we had close links with their research department. As we were looking at doing remote oil monitoring on trains we took some of the algorithms they used in the cars (this was about 2002/3). From memory they passed an electric current through the oil and measured it's resistance, then ran this figure through an algorithm that contained amongst other things number of starts, calculated load factor, engine temperature, engine run hours etc and calculated the time to next drain.

However this is only ever a lose proxy for oil condition, basically a prediction calculation with a few variables - hence the calendar over ride !
Andrea Nistri
Posts: 619
Joined: 07 Jan 2009, 14:46

Re: Oil leak

Unread post by Andrea Nistri »

Any new oil will be immediately contaminated by the old oil in the oil filter if the latter is not replaced as well. Furthermore, the fresh additives in the new oil will release gunk from the old filter. So, it is a good idea to change the oil filter as often as the oil is changed. Andrea
Andrea N.
mat
Posts: 12
Joined: 23 Dec 2008, 12:36

Re: Oil leak

Unread post by mat »

Many thanks for all the comments. I followed Huib's advice and replace the front crankshaft seal with a double lipped one and am trying the Miller 10/60 oil. So far so good! I guess time will tell whether my engine rebuilding skills are poor or I have a more significant problem (if there can be one worse than being a poor mechanic!). regards mat
mat
Posts: 12
Joined: 23 Dec 2008, 12:36

Re: Oil leak

Unread post by mat »

Many thanks for all your comments. as the saying goes, 'the obvious is can hide very well!

I replaced the front crankshaft seal with a double lipped one and filled up with Millers oil.
A short drive showed no leak and much cheering. A longer drived showed the leak again, but having cleaned the engine and used a bit of talc on her, I traced the oil leak to the drain hole in the new water pump!
A bit of a shame I didn't look there first, but I assumed a new pump wouldnt fail after about 100 miles.

As for the oil, I have drived about 2000 miles and have had no problems. Its not cheap, but the top end looks very clean and pressure is good, so I am sold on it!

Mat
bmarler
Posts: 110
Joined: 22 Dec 2008, 17:33

Re: Oil leak

Unread post by bmarler »

i recently discovered the weep hole on my waterpump is leaking oil too. are the seals available for this, and is it practical to replace them yourself?
'67 fulvia sport, '61 appia vignale
Huib
Site Admin
Posts: 1857
Joined: 17 Dec 2008, 10:12

Re: Oil leak

Unread post by Huib »

There is no oil seal.

The ball bearing for the spindle doubles up as an oil seal. The ball bearing is the sealed version but those seals are really grease seals and not oil seals.

NSK makes a ball bearing 6202DD which has pretty good seals. The ID and OD of the bearing are the same as the original one. the thickness is less, so you have to use shims. But they are still grease seals!

SKF lists bearings with oil seals that could be made to fit. They are however not available in small qty.

I have the feeling that sump pressure is too high which forces oil out through the ball bearing. I can't prove that in any sorf of scientific way.
racing
Posts: 1371
Joined: 09 Jan 2009, 08:25
Location: cologne/Bonn

Re: Oil leak

Unread post by racing »

as i wrote on the top of this topic

Andreas
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