Color codes for 1970 Flavia 2000 coupe

[rossocorsa]

I don't think that they built both at the same time, years ago I wrote to pininfarina to ask about production of the flavia coupes and they said that production ended in 1974 (well pre-gamma) which is a year later than lancia stated but I suspect that may be due to lancia laying down a lot of 2000 coupe chassis ahead of assembly at pf. I wrote because there were many 2000hf in the UK with chassis numbers beyond the official last built number (I had 2307 ...last chassis number allegedly is 2229...which is still alive and well but now in ireland being looked after better than I could be bothered these days) it didn't really answer the question as they said that about 1000 less 2000 coupé were built than lancias figures which is odd maybe a typo but I never followed it up my other theory was that maybe 2000 and 2000hf coupés actually shared chassis sequences which would mean they made very few indeed or of course the favourite that Italians can't count all that well when it comes to official records. On the subject of is the 2000 a fussy car i think not on the whole it was the last of the line and had most flavia quirks designed out if regularly serviced and kept free of tin worm it was an exceptional machine particularly with bosch injection (strange that the gamma started life with carbs) but god forbid if you filled the very large boot with luggage though as the rear springs could only take about half a boot load!!!

[gamma a.i.]

rossocorsa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't think that they built both at the same time, years ago I wrote to pininfarina to ask
> about production of the flavia coupes and they said that production ended in 1974 (well
> pre-gamma)

Johnny replies:

Rossocorsa, you are tutto corretto ! I've seen photos of both cars on PF Stand in 1977 ? Geneva Show & simply assumed that PF was still building / selling 2000 Coupe. Now I realze that there was a sort-of "soft-wish for a rub-off effetc" intended, to carry the Flavia / 2000 Coupe legend onto the throughly modern Gamma.

Concerning carbs on S1 Gamma; by way of an fresh air into exhaust system tube, via the air-filter, the S1 actually pollutes less than the S2 i.e., which doesn't have this feature; S1 owners have reported figures that are rather-clean, by 80's standards.

In the long run, a real Lancia Legend the Gamma is not ! & probably never will be; while the Flavia Coupe is, imho, the real-thing...still, I like my gaggle of Gamma. .

[Henrik]

I think you are wrong Johnny !
In the long run Gamma (Coupe) will be a legend. On the outside: Just beautiful.
Inside: Well, a mixed bag. But CAN be great.
I WANT to like the Berlina. But so far it hasn´t worked.

Henrik

[rossocorsa]

I think the gamma berlina will be seen as a design classic (when it is extinct) I can't understand why it's so under appreciated

[Geoff]

Some color chips from 2000 coupe. The Flavia color codes from Lancia include their number and the ever-elusive Max Meyer numbers, for which we have been unable to find any modern equivalent.

Geoff

[Ed Levin]

Yes, that's the same 1972 chart that Colin posted, and that I referenced. But, as we've learned, they're for the 1971-71 2000 Coupé, not the 1969-70 Flavia 2000 Coupé. I've got the Glasurit equivalents for the 1972 chart, but it doesn't really answer the question.

[rossocorsa]

Ed Levin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, that's the same 1972 chart that Colin posted,
> and that I referenced. But, as we've learned,
> they're for the 1971-71 2000 Coupé, not the
> 1969-70 Flavia 2000 Coupé. I've got the Glasurit
> equivalents for the 1972 chart, but it doesn't
> really answer the question.
check again colin posted the flavia coupe colours!!!

[Ed Levin]

Shouldn't do these late at night; Geoff's chart is from 1972, but Colin's must be from 1969-70 and does show the correct swatches, but not the applicable codes. So for Henrik's purposes, he's better off finding some area of original, unfaded paint (under dash? inside boot?) and having it matched by a competent supplier, and proofed with test panels.

[rossocorsa]

Ed Levin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Shouldn't do these late at night; Geoff's chart is
> from 1972, but Colin's must be from 1969-70 and
> does show the correct swatches, but not the
> applicable codes. So for Henrik's purposes, he's
> better off finding some area of original, unfaded
> paint (under dash? inside boot?) and having it
> matched by a competent supplier, and proofed with
> test panels.

if it still has it's rear number plate frame behind the number plate is a good place to check first but it depends if it's been painted previously (and what job they did a sloppy painter might have just masked off the surround and not taken it off) paint on the inside of panels is not always a good guide as it is applied inconsistently to differing thickness

[gamma a.i.]

I, who am not English, like the English english-term "a bit dense" when it is jokingly used in referring to people who "are slow on the pick-up". The German equivelent "Dumbkopf" seems to be an insult in comparison .

Concerning the Gamma interior, I will admit to initially being "dense"; but I have an *excuse "ready to hand".
*EXCUSE: The 1st Gamma I actually "looked at" in detail was the "everyday car" of a "fine-car dealer" in Lecco; near Como. About 10 yrs ago I was enroute to the US Army Base in Vicenza from my Base in Heidelberg, Germany. Do not ask me why
This dealer was located next to a Caffè Bar & Caffè Bars have bathrooms.
After I had; Yikes !!! taken care of matters [/i i]n the Caffè Bar I decided to stretch my legs & "eyeball" the various gleaming Maserati that were 1/2 rolled out of the showroom into the sunny parking lot. 1 of them was being lovingly hand- polished by a gray-haired gentleman in a exquisite suit, wearing expensive shoes & what looked to be a hand sewn shirt & a silk-tie.
I had to smile & comment on the humor of the scene. He agreed, but told me "it is cheaper for me to do it myself than pay someone else to do it half-as-good". He proceeded to semi-insult me for even looking at the gleaming Maser line-up; since I was in ripped jeans & t-shirt & had rolled into his parking lot in a Van...OK, a Nice Van...but a Van nonetheless & not a Luxo-GT.
He told me "look at this; this is the car for you...a Gamma...it is my everyday car; my go grocery shopping car, my take the kids to school car, my "come to work car. I have never hand-washed not hand polished it. It is as good as a Maser & I am not afraid to park it in the street. I run on LPG Gas & tank 1x a month".
I looked at the untidy everyday car blue interior & realized that he had a dog. I was not impressed by the the S2 interior !t wasn't until much later that I realized that it was an Gamma S2.
This S2 needed to be washed & polished, scrubbed & vacuumed; but wasn't going to be.
The "finely clad car-washer" said "why wash it ?; all I want to do is drive it for 20 years more & not sell it for a lot of money, like this fine red Maser. In fact, if you said "OK, I'll buy this Gamma", I wouldn't sell it to you".

Still, Somehow, his glowing report of his Gamma left a dent in my dense mind.

Some time later, when I "was given the opportunity" to buy a Gamma - or a Lancia 2000 Berlina - or a Alfa 2000 Berlina; when I was ready "to buy something" I looked in & sat in the interior of all 3 - a # of times.

I wasn't impressed with the "ugly Alfa interior of cheap-looking plastic"...although it was in very good-condition & was very cheap - about € 1,000 to € 1200; although there was no € at the time.
Cristian Luzzago of Luzzago Auto in Brescia told me "if you want it - I am selling it for the original-owner.
I want to take care of everything...oil change, brake pads, adjustments before I sell it. But, lets be honest...it isn't a pretty car, but is a 2000 ! I thought about it for a few minutes & bought it as my "in Italy Car".

I was utterly impressed with noble silver Lancia 2000...everything was perfect !!! , but it was located too far away to be a "hassle-free purchase" ! Don't forget, I am dense...this car I should have bought, somehow !!!.
It was cheap for what it was, it had only 1 previous owner (rip) & was totally "like new"
The seller, Auto Nerves, near Aviano, I..where I often visited theUSAF Base, told me "pay 50% by bank transfer next week when you return home &50% when you return to Aviano again in 45 days (how did he know that ?) I know who you are & I trust you !! Take the car with you tomorrow & transfer the 1st 50% next week. When you return in 45 days , we will go to the proper offices & do the transfer of title; we will pay someone so you can keep the original Targa (plates).
The car is still registered & insured & you have a 2d driver with you. I promised the late owner's widow that I would sell the car quickly; in fact...the late Doctor wife also has the same car - in white - when you return in 45 days you can buy it too...it is just as nice (it was) & you get 2 Lancia 2000 Berlini for the price of 1.5.
No one in Italy wants this Model of Lancia now, but they will soon ! These 2 cars are jewels.

He was right !!

Unfortunately, as soon as the real Aviano business was finished, we had to visit Gheddi Air Base near Bergamo, drove down to the US Army Livorno Base, near Pisa & continued onto the US Navy Base in Napoli...so there was no opportunity to take either of these Lancia 2000 !!

By the time I actually stopped in, with some Lire to spend...it was far too late..........alas !!

Spool forward some months....I looked at a 1 owner Swiss Gamma S1, located much closer to home, already with the right import / ownership documents & original title, which was part of a "package deal".

I was & wasn't unimpressed with this particular low-km, full service history Gamma, although this S1 was quite nice. Its S1 interior didn't strike me as being "aha, wow, lovely wood, lovely carpets, lovely & stately seats, f & r, like the 2 x 2000 Berlina near Aviano did..

Still...due to a combabulation of reasons...such as "the low price of this Gamma as an add-on to a package -deal of cars - car/i] I ended up owing it. I wasn't sure why; nor if I wanted to invest money in it, or to keep it.

It was "committee decided" (my family) to make it ours a short time later.

It did take some time (for me) to appreciate the S1 interior...after some time I began to understand it.
Especially after I had compared it to a # of "more refined, more luxurious, very bland S2 interiors".

The S2 had entirely lost the S1 Pizzaz, the Private Jet Cockpit" look; loosing a lot of small S1 details that brought the design together. The steering-wheel silver trim, the silver ash-tray trim, the silver bevels around the instruments, matched by silver trim in the area of the push-bottons, not to forget the aluminum kick-panels on the doors. Mostly gone on the S2.

Almost everything on the interior is as angular as the exterior. The extra low seats, allow an extra low roof line & still ample headroom for someone of "normal-size". A shorter person would have to sit on a fat pillow to drive.
Leg room for an NBA star; rear seating to sleep in / on !!!

The exterior ,of the S1 or S2 Coupe, was & still is "angular to the nth-degree, sleek & smooth; creased & folded....long & low, large in & large out".

A total "new-look" for Lancia; but a look that was close to many other higher priced Italo GT cars of those times.
PF clones PF (again)

It exterior was such a break with "traditional "old-school" Lancia Design that it must have been a shock to those who care about such things. The S1 interior as well.

I discussed the Gamma - in & out - Coupe styling / design many time with other Gammisti (as if there wasn't "more-important worldly matters" to discuss"); at meetings & on the Gamma forum.
Very few came out in defense of the S2 interior...very few as in "nobody".
I've noticed that many S2 have wooden steering-wheels, which, imho, looks entirely out of place & matche nothing, but who cares about my opinion.

Both of my drivable Gamma are S1, with S1 interiors. Both have aged well &, somehow, "what what used to look like a cheap plastic dashboard / instrument panel " doesn't look cheap anymore. It looks like new plastic, even 30+ years after production.

The 1st time I rode in an S2, with Wolf Steel, roaring (legally) through the hills in the Rhine Vally, I was impressed ... with his driving & his car...but not with the interior luxus. The S2 had lost its Pizzaz ! It went "mainstream"; it got too "Maserati -like " !

Berlina: well, in the right color, with the right "luxus interior"; may not be a hit for everyone.
Rover got the same basic design better, Citroen made it too long. The VW Passat was plug-ugly.

The Berlina is "the sum of its parts" & overall it is a fine package; with lots of neat features. It looks fine with S1 wheels, which (imho again) the Coupe doesn't. S1 wheels are just too small !!

The Berlina does everything the Coupe does, as well as the Coupe does & has 4 doors. I am not sure the trunk is larger, but it has that extra rear window (so does the newest Hondy CRX !!)

I like the Berlina as a "very serious vehicle". I wouldn't mind if 1 of my Coupes was a S1 ...or... S2 Luxus Berlina...but I will not buy a Berlina. No matter what color.

2 Gamma is enough for anyone; although there are quite a # of Gammisti who own more...a lot more...

End of Report ?; almost: there were some S1 built with S2 interior & it seems, some S2 with S1 interior ...just to make everything confusing for everyone. There is currently a 78/79 LHD S1 for sale in UK with an 82 1st registration year, with a S2 interior...which was not introduced until 80/81 time-frame. The 2L Gamma was not produced in LHD; nor was the 2L Gamma sold in the UK...so what is it ??? I'd bet they have no idea at PF B)-

yes, the 2000 is now sought, more than before anyway & prices are 4xhigher.....alas, I drive a Gamma