Is the thick battery -ve cable connected to the crossmember or the engine / tranny? What you call crossmember is that the thing where the front spring sits?
The -ve cable should NOT be connected to the crossmember but to a bolt in the gearbox directly behind the "Eifeltower".
The crossmember is part of the subframe which is electrically isolated from the engine / tranny by rubbers and isolated from the body by rubbers.
The only electrical items mounted on the subframe are the claxons. The wire from engine to crossmember is there to provide a ground for the claxons. It is a short wire with 2 M8 lugs. One connected to one of the 4 bolts fastening the bracket for the big rubber silent bloc to the crossmember. The other end goes under the head of a bolt fastening the clutch housing to the flywheel housing. In fact the bolt between the bracket holding the clutch cable and the starter motor.
It is debatable if the ground for the steering wheel and its claxon button (on S1 also the signalling light button) also comes from the subframe. Best figure it is.
Best put a grounding wire for the alternator like the original. That is a wire with M8 lug under the adjust bolt of the alternator on the side of the alternator, not on the side of the bracket. On the other end of the wire an M6 lug to go under one of the bolts of the cover of the auxiliary shaft.
Now the battery should charge. The wire to the body is there to provide ground for the lights, wipers, heater fan etc. and should not have any influence on the battery nor alternator
But are you sure the alternator has a built in electronic regulator? Early S2 cars had a Bosch alternator. Later S2 / 3 cars had a Ducellier alternator. These two alternators are not compatible.
On Bosch alternators you can replace the plastic part with the three wire connector and brushes with and electronic regulator.
On the Ducellier this is not possible. The Ducellier does not have a neat 3 pin connector for the wires to the regulator. What might have happened is that someone changed the Bosch regulator for a Ducellier (or the other way around), found the wires did not fit and gave up.
I would prefer an electro-mechanical regulator in a cool corner over an electronic one living on top of a hot engine.
If you make new wires do only use the correct torquing tools to crimp on contacts. Do not use standard pliers but only the proper tools which have to be fully pressed before they can be released.
Alternator wiring
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Andy Craig
Re: Alternator wiring
Hi Huib,
Thanks for getting back to me. I have printed off your last post and will go down to the car now and try to apply what you've advised.
The alt' appears to be a Bosch and in very good condition (to me it looks only a few years old compared to the rest of the ancilliaries).
I'll post back shortly. I can't see where i can post a photo - is it possible on this forum?
kind regards
Andy
Thanks for getting back to me. I have printed off your last post and will go down to the car now and try to apply what you've advised.
The alt' appears to be a Bosch and in very good condition (to me it looks only a few years old compared to the rest of the ancilliaries).
I'll post back shortly. I can't see where i can post a photo - is it possible on this forum?
kind regards
Andy
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Andy Craig
Re: Alternator wiring
Hi Huib,
I have checked the car and here's what we have : the main battery earth does indeed go to a lug on the tranny next to the 'eiffel tower'. On the same lug is a short, slightly thinner earth cable going to what i think is a crossmember (where the coil is mounted). The earth from the alt' (which is now correctly connected to the alt' side of the bracket) is mounted beneath the upper nut which locates the starter to the tranny. All the 'thick black' cables appear in good shape, are well fastened, and seem to have been in their currect locations for some time.
I suspect that the wiring to the alt' is the problem since there wasn't anything on there. I'm still trying to figure out what should be on there. To recap from a previous post :
There is an L-shaped 2-pin plug which is a specific fit for the back of the alt'. It has in it a thick red wire going down to the starter (where this connects on the alt' is marked B+) and a thinner red/black wire joining up with the main, insulated harness and going back to the dash (this is marked D+ on the alt'). There is a lone, male connector located close to the L-shaped plug marked only with + but unlike the L-shaped plug there isn't anything lying around that looks like it obviously belongs on there. I ran the motor with and without the L-shaped plug in place and the voltage across the battery remained the same at 12.65v (which of course indicates that the system isn't charging).
Knowing virtually nothing about electrics (to my shame..) i deduce that the only thing missing from this picture is a wire connecting to the male spade connector on the back of the alt' marked +.
Does all this sound right? Does the + connection on the alt' need to be connected to something or should it all work fine without it? If it doesn't need to be connected then the alt' probably needs attention.
Thanks again,
Andy
I have checked the car and here's what we have : the main battery earth does indeed go to a lug on the tranny next to the 'eiffel tower'. On the same lug is a short, slightly thinner earth cable going to what i think is a crossmember (where the coil is mounted). The earth from the alt' (which is now correctly connected to the alt' side of the bracket) is mounted beneath the upper nut which locates the starter to the tranny. All the 'thick black' cables appear in good shape, are well fastened, and seem to have been in their currect locations for some time.
I suspect that the wiring to the alt' is the problem since there wasn't anything on there. I'm still trying to figure out what should be on there. To recap from a previous post :
There is an L-shaped 2-pin plug which is a specific fit for the back of the alt'. It has in it a thick red wire going down to the starter (where this connects on the alt' is marked B+) and a thinner red/black wire joining up with the main, insulated harness and going back to the dash (this is marked D+ on the alt'). There is a lone, male connector located close to the L-shaped plug marked only with + but unlike the L-shaped plug there isn't anything lying around that looks like it obviously belongs on there. I ran the motor with and without the L-shaped plug in place and the voltage across the battery remained the same at 12.65v (which of course indicates that the system isn't charging).
Knowing virtually nothing about electrics (to my shame..) i deduce that the only thing missing from this picture is a wire connecting to the male spade connector on the back of the alt' marked +.
Does all this sound right? Does the + connection on the alt' need to be connected to something or should it all work fine without it? If it doesn't need to be connected then the alt' probably needs attention.
Thanks again,
Andy
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Andy Craig
Re: Alternator wiring
Hi,
I've been doing some snooping on the web and my guess is that the 'spare' terminal on the back of the alt' marked + is the 'excite' field, in which case it just needs 12v from the ignition switch for example.
I won't try this until someone out there lets me know if i'm in danger of starting an expensive bonfire!!
cheers,
Andy
I've been doing some snooping on the web and my guess is that the 'spare' terminal on the back of the alt' marked + is the 'excite' field, in which case it just needs 12v from the ignition switch for example.
I won't try this until someone out there lets me know if i'm in danger of starting an expensive bonfire!!
cheers,
Andy
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Peter Cripps
Re: Alternator wiring
Andy,
If I understand you correctly, you are now saying that there are 3 connections to the alternator: B+, D+, and this 3rd 'mystery connector' labeled just '+'?
That changes my original conclusion that your alternator has an internal regulator. Perhaps it does, but the 3rd connector could also be for an external voltage regulator. I would not just connect it to 12V unless you have definite information.
You might perhaps take the alternator to an auto electrical shop, where they should be able to tell you right away what the 3rd terminal is for.
Sorry I can't be of direct help, but I don't like giving advice unless I'm sure of my information!
Good luck,
Peter
If I understand you correctly, you are now saying that there are 3 connections to the alternator: B+, D+, and this 3rd 'mystery connector' labeled just '+'?
That changes my original conclusion that your alternator has an internal regulator. Perhaps it does, but the 3rd connector could also be for an external voltage regulator. I would not just connect it to 12V unless you have definite information.
You might perhaps take the alternator to an auto electrical shop, where they should be able to tell you right away what the 3rd terminal is for.
Sorry I can't be of direct help, but I don't like giving advice unless I'm sure of my information!
Good luck,
Peter
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Huib
Re: Alternator wiring
What Peter said about the excite current is correct.
The red / black wire comes from the dashboard charge light. If you hold that wire against the engine or alt' with the ignition on, does the charge on the dashboard come on?
The red / black wire comes from the dashboard charge light. If you hold that wire against the engine or alt' with the ignition on, does the charge on the dashboard come on?
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Andy Craig
Re: Alternator wiring
Thanks Peter,
Yes, thats correct. There are 3 connections in total (two being held in the L-shaped connector : thick red and red/black) and the 'spare' one is simply marked +.
I think you're right - i should buy a pint for someone at an electrical workshop and ask what it's for!
Meantime i'll go out to the car and check if the dash light comes on if i earth the red/black wire as per Huib's last post.
Cheers
Andy
Yes, thats correct. There are 3 connections in total (two being held in the L-shaped connector : thick red and red/black) and the 'spare' one is simply marked +.
I think you're right - i should buy a pint for someone at an electrical workshop and ask what it's for!
Meantime i'll go out to the car and check if the dash light comes on if i earth the red/black wire as per Huib's last post.
Cheers
Andy
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Andy Craig
Re: Alternator wiring
Hi Huib,
Yes, connecting the red/black wire to the alt' puts the dash light on (and it was nice to see it working at least!).
But i'm confused (it's easily done..!). If it comes on when i hold the red/black wire to the alt' why doesn't it come on when i connect it through the L-shaped connector?
Andy
Yes, connecting the red/black wire to the alt' puts the dash light on (and it was nice to see it working at least!).
But i'm confused (it's easily done..!). If it comes on when i hold the red/black wire to the alt' why doesn't it come on when i connect it through the L-shaped connector?
Andy
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Huib
Re: Alternator wiring
The lamp should be of sufficiently high power to get the alt' going. However for it just to come on the power does not matter.
What sometimes happens is that the connectors in the plastic L shaped housing are pushed upwards and consequently do not connect with the terminals on the alt'.
Did you check this?
What sometimes happens is that the connectors in the plastic L shaped housing are pushed upwards and consequently do not connect with the terminals on the alt'.
Did you check this?
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Huib
Re: Alternator wiring
Here is a pic of two Bosch alternators. Both are original Fulvia.
As you can see on the left one: the extra + contact is used to connect a capacitor for interference suppression.
Both have a plastic part with the 3 pin connector to an external regulator. An electronic regulator can be put in place of this plastic section in which case the connector with the 3 terminals is not there.