changing from dunlop to girling
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P. de R. Leclercq
Re: changing from dunlop to girling
INteresting, Tony.
I am pleased that the change was a success.
Are the Toyota seals readily available? Super news if they are.
Paul
I am pleased that the change was a success.
Are the Toyota seals readily available? Super news if they are.
Paul
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P. de R. Leclercq
Re: changing from dunlop to girling
Hello.
No you don't need the uprights, you need the bearing housings that incorporate the steering arms. S1 ball joints were only used with S1 trackrods - threads are different (as well as the tapers of course).
If you are not using a servo, don't use the S2 master cylinder; it is too big, remember that the pressure is worked out on the area of the piston, and 21mm diameter represents a much bigger area than 19mm. I would opt for a new master cylinder if I were you. Cheap, replaceable and much less trouble. Better still, another of my daydreams was to fit a competition type pedal box with twin master cylinders and a balance bar - the best solution of all.
Paul
No you don't need the uprights, you need the bearing housings that incorporate the steering arms. S1 ball joints were only used with S1 trackrods - threads are different (as well as the tapers of course).
If you are not using a servo, don't use the S2 master cylinder; it is too big, remember that the pressure is worked out on the area of the piston, and 21mm diameter represents a much bigger area than 19mm. I would opt for a new master cylinder if I were you. Cheap, replaceable and much less trouble. Better still, another of my daydreams was to fit a competition type pedal box with twin master cylinders and a balance bar - the best solution of all.
Paul
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Huib
Re: changing from dunlop to girling
What is exactly called the upright then. I though the upright and bearings housing were the same.
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P. de R. Leclercq
Re: changing from dunlop to girling
Ah...
Well, to me, the uprights on a Fulvia are the aluminium castings that support the wishbones.
Perhaps I am wrong!?
Paul
Well, to me, the uprights on a Fulvia are the aluminium castings that support the wishbones.
Perhaps I am wrong!?
Paul
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william
Re: changing from dunlop to girling
To what size did you make the mastercilinder? To S2 size or smaller? Do you use a servo?
Keeping two hoses per caliper means you still have the 'super duplex' setup or not?
Keeping two hoses per caliper means you still have the 'super duplex' setup or not?
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P. de R. Leclercq
Re: changing from dunlop to girling
I think that this question is for Tony, but on the Fanalone, we arranged things so that the new front calipers were powered by one half of the master cylinder (then an original 18mm type) and the rears from the other half of course.
Later an hydraulic servo was fitted, operating just on the front brakes. The master cylinder gave so much trouble that it was discarded. Currently a 21mm Peugeot 306 cylinder is fitted.
Finally as a further example, on my own car, I have fitted FIAT 20V coupé calipers and 308mm ventilated discs on special aluminium bells. No servo. The brakes are good but of course I have to run 15" wheels.
At the back I still have the original Dunlop calipers mainly because otherwise the handbrake is such a pain to organise. These were lined with stainless steel and have given no trouble for ten years. Despite the large front brakes, the overall system is surprisingly well balanced.
Paul
Later an hydraulic servo was fitted, operating just on the front brakes. The master cylinder gave so much trouble that it was discarded. Currently a 21mm Peugeot 306 cylinder is fitted.
Finally as a further example, on my own car, I have fitted FIAT 20V coupé calipers and 308mm ventilated discs on special aluminium bells. No servo. The brakes are good but of course I have to run 15" wheels.
At the back I still have the original Dunlop calipers mainly because otherwise the handbrake is such a pain to organise. These were lined with stainless steel and have given no trouble for ten years. Despite the large front brakes, the overall system is surprisingly well balanced.
Paul
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Tony Kovacevic
Re: changing from dunlop to girling
Paul, I'll dig out the part number (I'm in Australia) and check with my local Toyota dealer and post the result. To answer the other questions : I bored the whole cylinder to 21mm. I'm running with no booster and the original Ser1 rear brakes (again, handbrake). My car had an adjustable rear brake bias valve fitted and through testing and some trail and error, I have no rear brake lock up problems. Back to the front brakes, For simplicity, I'm running single front brake hoses. This involved drilling the calipers to join the 2 circuits. As a matter of interest, I'm still using the original HF 13" mags.
As an alternative, a friend is running a Fulvia 2c with the super duplex set up. This involved fitting a steering column complete with booster and 21mm master cylinder from a Ser 2 Fulvia sedan and then making up extra brake lines to the duplex front hoses. The car is running a Ser2 1300 motor and 5 speed gearbox.
As an alternative, a friend is running a Fulvia 2c with the super duplex set up. This involved fitting a steering column complete with booster and 21mm master cylinder from a Ser 2 Fulvia sedan and then making up extra brake lines to the duplex front hoses. The car is running a Ser2 1300 motor and 5 speed gearbox.
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william
Re: changing from dunlop to girling
What is the necessary brake pedal force like with a 21mm mastercilinder without servo? I once owned a S1 coupe with the 18mm replaced by a S2 21mm master cilinder. The pedal force was enormous!
Did you use in yoiur bored out 18mm cilinder the same innerts as the original S2 cilinder or modified?
Did you use in yoiur bored out 18mm cilinder the same innerts as the original S2 cilinder or modified?
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Huib
Re: changing from dunlop to girling
The (relative) brake pedal force follows easily from the formulae I gave above. Since the hydraulic pressure is pedal force multiplied by the leverage factor of the pedal divided by the surface area of the plunger in the master brake cilinder it follows that the hydraulic pressure is inversely proportional to the square of the diameter of the mbc at a constant pedal force. With a 21mm mbc the pedal force thus has to be 21^2 / 18^2 = 1,36 times higher than with a 18mm mbc to get the same hydraulic pressure.