International Lancia Forums

Hi Lancisti,

Lancia always had 'class' regardless of what niche it chose to play in; discrete?

Do you remember their Zagato bodies Flaminia, Flavia and Fulvia models produced in parallel to the elegant and perhaps discrete 'normal' versions of the same models? There were even convertible versions of the FalminiaFlaminia and Flavia being produced at one time...plus the sedan versions of all these.

That makes three lines and 8 different body styles. (I guess who invented the manner of 'niche' production)

Then came the Fiat era.

What did we get? The very promising Beta range which brought the 'rot' in more ways than one; excellently conceived cars but poor quality started the slide to oblivion; the Gamma was a joke apart from the styling of the couple; at a time when all and sundry were equipping their top of range cars with ^cylinder cars, Lancia (Fiat) went ahead with a flat four...it must have made a loss on each car sold;

Let's not talk about the Trevi - the pain is too great even thinking about it...

Then came the Stratos, the Monte Carlo and Delta - things started looking up! The Integrale in particular built such a bullet-proof image that only a sick mind would kill it off at its prime...and yet, when the new Delta came along and by which time Alfa had been acquired by Fiat, it was stupidly decided not to offer an Intergale version of it. It was at that time that I already realised that Fiat was losing the game...

The Thema was a brave interlude; the Station Wagon and 8.32 versions really gave the range sparkle and the range of engines was quite complete. The Kappa, replacing the Thema, was boring to look at and there was nothing really special about it. The coupe version was a half-baked affair - this ought to have been a totally fresh design and would have sold double the numbers if not triple. The kappa station wagon was also a very 'niche' product - at least better looking than the sedan and the whole rage had decent engines...but the styling was sad overall.

Then came the Lybra - everything looked promising again - but where did the development stop? From day one I begged the dealer for a large engined version. Noting has changed in its 5 year career other than a more powerful 1.9jtd - basta, The dealers here in Switzerland didn't know how to market it and still don't. The Thesis is another brave attempt but again the marketing is poor and the engine range limited; if they had a V8 and a large diesel sales, at least in Germany, Switzerland would have been double.

Oh, I nearly forgot the Zeta and Phedra, I'll stop here on these 'bastard' Peugeot/Fiats trying to pretend being a Lancia...

So where now?

1. Thesis: A petrol V8 and diesel V6 Thesis please. A Thesis station wagon and Coupe/Convertible with recognisably different styling would help.

2. Lybra replacement: New range on new premium GM Epsilon platform - with a sedan/saloon shape that will be attractive; Convertible and SW versions too and with a broader range of engines - at least a 3L petrol to compete with BMW, Audi and Mercedes.

3. Delta replacement with hot Integrale versions + coupe/convertibles

4. Hotter and more powerful Ypsilons

5. Drop Phedra or differentiate more from Fiat. Same for Musa - must have more powerful engines if it is to pretend being a Mercedes A-Class alternative.

6. Why not an SUV? Lancia had a long a solid tradition in building beautiful trucks, buses and vans - my father who grew up in Athens, Greece, remembers Lancia City buses there in the 30s and since then was hooked on the brand...(Fiat equally has a tradition there, with the very innovative and ahead of its time Campagnola which had four wheel independent suspension that even some of today's SUVs can't match)

7. HF versions of all please too!

Overall: Maintain build quality; Better advsertising (most people have never heard of Lancia!!! I travel to Germany often and most people who see my Lybra are very impressed and all say they have never seen one before and how lovely it is and how nice this and that...Lancia - wake up and advertise it well! Look at Saab's advertising...). Offer more engine options; play the leading edge technology story but with real tangible tech improvements; reintroduce right had drive - half the world drives on the left – including Japan, Thailand, Singapore, Australia, New Zealand…not forgetting a few places in Europe….the UK, Ireland and our new EU Members countries Malta and Cyprus - people is such places can afford Lancias! introduce the brand in new markets e.g South America etc; reintroduce to the US - Americans will buy provided the quality holds up and sales + service are top notch;

I could cry when I see brands which were nowhere a few years ago being taken seriously these days…KIA, Hyundai, Daewoo not to mention Lexus, Infiniti and others. Toyota has poured billions into the Lexus brand and at least here in Europe its still not taken off - Fiat has the Lancia brand with all the history, tradition and image and just don’t know how to go forward with it. They can at least try to copy some of Toyota’s approach to building a brand – it would definitely do them a lot of good. I hope they also some times look into this site to get some inspiration….

Ciao from Geneva, Switzerland. Phil

Phil, I fully agree with your posting !

Here in austria was mentioned that after this summer Lybra and Thesis production will be stopped.
I have the big hope, to be wrong. After all: I am conviced the people at Lancia exactly know what
there should be done marketingwise, productwise, dealernetworkwise - they exactly know that there is a big group of Lancista out there, but : some power within Fiat - Alfa - Lancia seems to aim for Lancias end.

Some forces try hard to keep Lancia alive - so the Fulvia concept car was displayed at
Villa D Este Concours de Elegance beside the show (where the new Alfa Competizione won 2 prices out from 8!) and as you can read on www.italiaspeed.com the Fulvia again received alot of attraction.

I deeply hope Lancia will continue his 98 years tradition and we all can meet in Torino 2006 to celebrate the centennial!

Guus, after your protestations I went back and spent a solid 10-15 minutes just looking at the new Fulvia from a variety of angles, including some photos I hadn't seen before. Consider me a convert. I'm not 100% sure about the rear but the rest of the car is just stunning. Better still for me is that I've decided it's not really that retro. It seems an odd thing to say, but really, the only thing it shares with the original is its proportions and basic stance, and I figure that if something's right you may as well stick with it...

I see your point. The surfacing, the detailing, the interior - you're right, it is what Lancia should be building, and I've decided it would fit well with a Stilnovo-inspired Delta. Add it to my list of 'must-builds'. It would be a proper driver's car, and how many cars (with their nanny-aids and gizmos) can you say that about nowadays? Stick it on the 148/new Stilo platform and just make it. There is no conceivable way you could possibly make a loss on this. 20,000 people in Italy alone have indicated that they would put down a deposit if it were confirmed for production. Do you get the feeling some people inside Fiat don't like Lancia?

Now as for this news about the Thesis and Lybra, I must admit I haven't seen it but it doesn't surprise me if it's true. That's not to say it isn't very disappointing. Lancia cops a huge loss on every Thesis they sell but surely the loss per car will be even greater if they don't allow the car to run its full life cycle? The money has been spent on development and tooling so they may as well try to get some of it back. The Lybra was getting old but to leave Lancia with three models, two of which are people-carriers, is suicidal. The decision to abandon the replacements is just stupid and I do think there are factions within Fiat which want to kill Lancia off. The trouble is that they seem to be winning because Herbert Demel, Fiat Auto's CEO, is devoutly anti-Lancia and, judging from the latest moves, wants to kill the brand off.

The really distressing thing is that the Phedra in recent years has been the only 'Lancia' to punch above its weight in the marketplace, selling around double the projected sales targets. Now that is depressing.

The most crucial thing I wanted to emphasise in my original list was that the cars had to be able to be produced with the absolute minimum of investment. Fiat still isn't quite out of the woods, and as I've stated Lancia is last on the list of priorities. The new range has to offer maximum returns for minimum outlay - that is the only chance you have to make it work, however small that chance may be. However, if Lancia is to be a manufacturer of MPVs and nothing else then the decision is easy, and unequivocal - just kill the brand off for good, you numbnuts, and let it rest in peace.

The time has come. It may be too late, but I'm going to send that list to Fiat in the next few days or so - does anyone have any last requests they want to see on it? After a bit of a shaky start, I must admit that the Fulvia is one of the very few cars in recent times which, for me, has that absolute 'must-have' factor. That is to say, Lancia still possess the innate ability to make some of the most desirable cars in the world. Of course, we couldn't possibly have that. Unfortunately, I'm still working on the reasoning...