International Lancia Forums

I totally agree on this. Use components and platforms of the Fiat Auto group, but do it in the "Lancia-way". Lancia have no chance what so ever to stand on their own. As Ryan say, this doesn't mean that Lancia have to end up with "Fiat in drag". F.eks. even though the Lybra is based on the same platform as the Alfa 156, this is a totally different car, with caractheristics that clearly separates it from the Alfa.

Anyhow, know I am just so mad that there want be any replacement for the Lybra. What the hell am I going to drive then when it is time to let go of the Lybra SW that I have now. The Alfa 156 SW is to small, and Fiat doesn't really appeal to me. I am still hoping that the Lancia CEO's will come to their sences, so if anybody on this forum have any news on this, please let me know.

sadly it looks like the CEO of Lancia has already made the decision not to build a replacment for the Lybra, the word is that Fiat feel that introducing a third new model into the segment, alongside the Stilo and 147, would "provoke confusion aswell as creating over-exposure"

Ya see i just don't like the road cars like the Musa are taking Lancia, its and Idea will a grille, nothing more...don't Fiat remember the trio of Tempra/155/Dedra (well probably not, cause no-one else does!), they were dreadful cars that lacked any "Italian flair" because they were all basically the same bar the bagde...and sold likewise!

For me this is not logical. Lybra is as far as I understand not a contender for the147. The Alfa is a compact car, and the Lybra is a medium segment familycar, isn't it? At least that's why I bought it, a perfect car for a little family. An Alfa 147 is much smaller, even the 156 sw is to small for us.

thats what i can't understand either, the Lybra is in the same segment as the 156, not 147, fiat seem to be making no sense on this one at all...

I feel just like Haavard;

I've seen the Musa, sat in it, felt it and quite frankly prefer the Idea...the Musa is not a Lancia...at least the Y has a totally different bodywork and interior to the Punto whereas the Musa is just like a more luxurious Idea with a funny nose and slightly different rar end treatment.

The Thema, Saab 9000, 164 and Croma all had totally different bodywork (except for the doors) and the interiors were also totally different - the Idea and Musa have identical architecture and the interiors are also near the same;

Maybe the new bosses will dream up some other niche model which will be inteesting...let's wait and see.

you think that the Lancia Thema and SAAB 9000 look "totally different" also from the rear end?

http://steve.sterk.no/cars/Lancia/l_bakfra.jpg
http://www.saabturboclub.com/images/med ... 9000_1.jpg

Once can argue the Thema and 9000 were actually more similiar in shape than these new cars.
They have almost all the same basic shape except for the rear lights and the front grill and lights.

The moment I learned that Fiat had purchased Alfa Romeo in the mid-1980s, I knew that Lancia's days were numbered. There would no longer be a rationale for such a car as the Integrale. And there would no longer be a rationale for anything like the classic coupes that Lancia offered from the Aurelia through the Gamma. The only thing that would be left would be tubby dull sedans. When I saw the Thesis on the street last year, it just looked clumsy and graceless like an Italian Lincoln. Actually it really looked like the dumpy graceless top-of-the-line Hyundai.

The new Fulvia would be wonderful, but the fact that it's not happening just fits in with the utterly uninspired handling of this company's products over the past decade or so.

I complained quite a while ago that Fiat was turning into an Italian General Motors--a company that manages to sell fewer cars every year in its home market due to their complete lack of soul. Appropriately enough, Fiat is now partially owned by General Motors. "Lancia" now build minivans, essentially a refrigerator on wheels. I'm not sure why anyone will regret the passing of the marque.

I think the canning of the Lybra replacement is a nice way of saying there will be no Delta replacement. What should have been the Delta replacement - the Granturismo Stilnovo concept - is now allegedly being reworked into the next Stilo. The head of Lancia Centro Stile Flavio Manzoni has recently been drafted into Fiat Centro Stile which isn't good news at all. There are so many conflicting rumours at the moment it's hard to confirm anything at all but the news about the Lybra and Fulvia tells me that either Fiat is going to eventually make all Lancias nothing more than re-badged Fiats, in which case I would honestly prefer them to kill the marque, or simply kill it anyway.

It really pains me to say this but the truth is that the 156 is more inherently Lancia than any current Lancia. The Thesis just passes muster - after a shaky start and hating the looks when it came out, it actually does look a lot better in the metal and grows on you like a lot of Italian designs. I do wish it had a more sporting edge but the interior is absolutely first-class and overall I think it is a proper Lancia - it has a unique platform, unique suspension, and very nice engines, the two-litre turbo isn't shared with any other current car. Pity that Lancia loses an absolute truckload of money on every one they sell. But the point is that none of the others are really worthy of the Lancia name.

The Lybra annoys me because the 156 is really what it should be. Ignore those who say the Beta isn't a proper Lancia, they don't know what they're talking about. It is a superb car, much praised by contemporary road testers, and I know of at least two people who owned both Fulvias and Betas and rate the Beta a better car. People say it took Lancia downmarket but personally I think it was exactly the right car at the right time. Fiat needed to increase Lancia sales and you can't do that with a cost-no-object engineering exercise, especially when Fiat itself wasn't going along without a care in the world at the time. The Beta was an outstanding sports saloon in its day with great styling, particularly the Coupe and HPE, great handling and a sophisticated engine. Did you know that for a while the Beta was the best-selling imported car in Britain? Difficult to believe, I know, but it's true.

Now, translate that recipe across to today. Great sports saloon with lovely styling, good handling and responsive, technologically advanced engines. Sound a lot like a 156? It should because the Alfa, not the Lybra, is the Beta's true spiritual successor.

The Ypsilon is okay for what it is but really it's an Autobianchi replacement and not a Lancia. Ironic really that it's the only thing which has been keeping Lancia alive for all these years, since about 1999 it's consistently averaged around 70% of Lancia sales.

The Musa and Phedra are simply Fiat people-carriers. I really would like to be more kind about them but commonsense dictates otherwise.

Apparently part of the problem is political. Lancia doesn't have any plants in the south of Italy, but the Italian Government will give money to Fiat if they build extra cars there (it's still a depressed area). Fiat and Alfa have plants there, hence better from an economic viewpoint for Fiat to build more Fiats and Alfas. Ferrari and Maserati are sorted because now that Luca Montezemolo is the boss of Confindustria there's money available from there. As you can see, Lancia is the one left out in the cold...

Following on the thread of these messages, I am a single 30+ male owning at present a Delta HPE HF which was bought in Italy new and imported into England in 1997. I am now thinking about changing the car for another new one, but what in the range at present is there to buy, I prefered the old Ypsilon to the new one, but it is not that sporting looking. The Lybra maybe as I did have a Dedra before but the only one would be the 2.4JTD although a 2.0 litre petrol turbo with some sporting pretension would be better. The Phedra, no thanks do not need the space, and as others say the Thesis has grown on me from seeing it in the metal it is just too big for my need.

How my heart grow when seeing the new Fulvia show car, small sporty looking and hopefully not a long wait for an HF version to come. Fiat is missing the point, Lancia can not be saved by the present model range. They need a small sized hatchback complete with a sporty version to appeal to the 20+ sector. What was wrong with the Fulvia, Audi has the TT, and i assume this is the market that Fiat want Lancia to target.

As for Alfa, no thank you, The 147 looks do nothing for me, and as for the interior the looked bare compared to the Delta.

If Fiat want a quick fix, go retro and reproduce the Integrale. Come on Fiat, let Lancia have some freedom and maybe they will come up with a winner.

Simon
England

I'd like to say a thing or two on behalf of the Beta.

I still run a 1981 injected coupe which I've owned since 1990. It's lines only improve with age. Its road qualities still excel over the Japanese or American rental cars I occasionally find myself driving. Its U.S. spec smog-legal engine is a little bit anemic compared to the modern cars with 16 valve heads and variable valve timing, but its brakes and suspension still perform very well compared to the moderns. Build quality has proven quite good. Aside from one odd spot in the middle of the sunroof that must be the result of a material flaw in the steel used, the car has developed no rust (admittedly in sunny Southern California) while enjoying garage protection since I bought it 14 years ago. Electrical grounds are somewhat dicey, but how hard is it to clean those up from time to time? The power steering has given no trouble. Ditto the electric windows.

The Beta range suffered in the United States because of the poor quality smog equipment installed on the 1970s vintage cars which demolished reliability and also performance. The 1970s rust problems were also a factor. But as designs the cars were fundamentally sound cars and this came out when they were built properly in their later vintages. That's why my 1981 Beta coupe can still function as my daily driver.

I am a great partisan of the products from the old independent company and therefore I understand why people denigrate the Beta's status as a "true" Lancia. However, we have to accept the realities of the 1970s. I agree that the Beta was the right car for the time. I wish that it had been as well executed in the U.S. as it was elsewhere in the world. Maybe the Lancia name would be worth more if the company had a market over here.

Then again, maybe not. Alfa Romeo sold cars in the U.S. consistently from the 1900 models of the early 1950s right up through 1995 with the 164, but Fiat still saw fit to remove them from this market on the eve of introducing a batch of models (the GTV and Spider and the 166) that would have flown off the dealers' lots here.