Hello,
I am new here and will have several questions in the future I think. For a large time period now I am looking for a 3C Touring GT in original condition. Most of the car owners do not have the original car documents I need to check, if the current engine that is fitted in the car, is even really the original for this special car commission/chassis number.
Is there a possibility or does an intitution / Heritage Trust exist, where I can ask and get a confirmation thar the car is indeed a "matching number" one? It would be lovely if someone could give me a hint.
Best regards
Flami
Lancia Flaminia 3C GT engine number
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Jean de Barsy
- Posts: 95
- Joined: 23 Sep 2011, 14:01
Re: Lancia Flaminia 3C GT engine number
"Matching numbers"... not so with Lancia
All you need to check are the papers of the car, this is the most important. Here you will see if it's is a 2800 cc or 2500 cc engined Flaminia.
Once you know this, the engine prefix must be:
- 826... for the 2800 cc models
- 823... for the 2500 cc models
The next step is to check if the 2500 or 2800 cc engine has the correct configuration for the model.
A Flaminia GT 2800 should have an engine with the prefix *826.100- ...* and Flaminia Super Sport should have an engine with the prefix *826.200- ...* etc. These engine nrs are mentionned in every decent Lancia litterature. Also check if the carbs are correct.They range from a single Solex, to triple Solex (called 3B) and 3 double Webers (called 3C).
The 3C Webers are 35 DCNL on all the sporty versions of which only the Super Sport is fited with 3 Webers 40 DCN. It's important to check this as it could be that the multi carb setup has been swapped for the single Solex, due to problems or whatever. (The single Solex is hassle free, the other setups need to be fine tuned on a regular base). Needless to say the multi carb setups are very expensive if you can find one (carbs but also the inlet manifold)
As for the "matching numbers" I'm afraid you can't go further than what I've written above. There's no way to tell if the engine *826.100-4555* is indeed the engine fitted at the factory unless you have specific documentation where the engine number is mentionned.
Honestly I don't need to know, as long as it's the correct "type" of engine sits in the correct model.
Also, if the engine nr is not correct, it's not always a problem. A 826.100 or 826.200 engine sitting in a Flaminia Coupé or Sedan could be seen as an"upgrade" while a 823.000 engine sitting in a Flaminia Super Sport is a "downgrade" and hence, a problem!
All you need to check are the papers of the car, this is the most important. Here you will see if it's is a 2800 cc or 2500 cc engined Flaminia.
Once you know this, the engine prefix must be:
- 826... for the 2800 cc models
- 823... for the 2500 cc models
The next step is to check if the 2500 or 2800 cc engine has the correct configuration for the model.
A Flaminia GT 2800 should have an engine with the prefix *826.100- ...* and Flaminia Super Sport should have an engine with the prefix *826.200- ...* etc. These engine nrs are mentionned in every decent Lancia litterature. Also check if the carbs are correct.They range from a single Solex, to triple Solex (called 3B) and 3 double Webers (called 3C).
The 3C Webers are 35 DCNL on all the sporty versions of which only the Super Sport is fited with 3 Webers 40 DCN. It's important to check this as it could be that the multi carb setup has been swapped for the single Solex, due to problems or whatever. (The single Solex is hassle free, the other setups need to be fine tuned on a regular base). Needless to say the multi carb setups are very expensive if you can find one (carbs but also the inlet manifold)
As for the "matching numbers" I'm afraid you can't go further than what I've written above. There's no way to tell if the engine *826.100-4555* is indeed the engine fitted at the factory unless you have specific documentation where the engine number is mentionned.
Honestly I don't need to know, as long as it's the correct "type" of engine sits in the correct model.
Also, if the engine nr is not correct, it's not always a problem. A 826.100 or 826.200 engine sitting in a Flaminia Coupé or Sedan could be seen as an"upgrade" while a 823.000 engine sitting in a Flaminia Super Sport is a "downgrade" and hence, a problem!
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Randy Adams
- Posts: 16
- Joined: 10 Oct 2009, 17:19
Re: Lancia Flaminia 3C GT engine number
Hello Flami:
I'll add a little bit to Jean's information. If you have a 2.5 3C car, the engine should be an 823.10 series. I formerly owned a fairly early (1962) Touring GT coupe 2.5 3C which interestingly had an engine serial number just one number greater than the car's chassis number. Unfortunately I do not own the car any longer and cannot provide the specific numbers as I gave the buyer the file for the car. This will NOT be normal, however, because the 823.10 motor was installed originally in all of the 3C versions of the short chassis 824 Lancias, Touring coupe and convertible, and Zagato Sport. The same is true for the 826.10 engine; it was installed in several models.
Normally you should not find a 3B three barrel Solex in a Touring car. That carburetor was equipped exclusively in the later PF coupe models. If you find a car with three Weber 35DCNL carburetors but an 823.00 engine number, it is not original. It may or may not have been correctly modified with the special camshaft, water pump and radiator introduced to that engine. If the appropriate modifications have been made the engine will be functionally identical to a proper 823.10 original but of course it will not be original. I have something like this myself. For 18 years I have owned an (early) 824.04 convertible on which someone before me traded the original engine for an 813.00 (berlina) engine block. It has proper 823.00 cylinder heads,the correct larger Solex carburetor with small air filter, the oil filter block with connections to the oil cooler and I myself made certain the camshaft was a proper 823.00 unit by sourcing a NOS part and having it installed when it was time for a rebuild. But my car will never be original; I have to satisfy myself with enjoying my experience behind the steering wheel instead of calculating how much money I could sell it for.
The one "cheat" I've always thought would be fun on my already non-original convertible would be to fit in a late 826.00 engine to make the car more broad-shouldered but without it being obvious upon opening the hood that I had "cheated."
I'll add a little bit to Jean's information. If you have a 2.5 3C car, the engine should be an 823.10 series. I formerly owned a fairly early (1962) Touring GT coupe 2.5 3C which interestingly had an engine serial number just one number greater than the car's chassis number. Unfortunately I do not own the car any longer and cannot provide the specific numbers as I gave the buyer the file for the car. This will NOT be normal, however, because the 823.10 motor was installed originally in all of the 3C versions of the short chassis 824 Lancias, Touring coupe and convertible, and Zagato Sport. The same is true for the 826.10 engine; it was installed in several models.
Normally you should not find a 3B three barrel Solex in a Touring car. That carburetor was equipped exclusively in the later PF coupe models. If you find a car with three Weber 35DCNL carburetors but an 823.00 engine number, it is not original. It may or may not have been correctly modified with the special camshaft, water pump and radiator introduced to that engine. If the appropriate modifications have been made the engine will be functionally identical to a proper 823.10 original but of course it will not be original. I have something like this myself. For 18 years I have owned an (early) 824.04 convertible on which someone before me traded the original engine for an 813.00 (berlina) engine block. It has proper 823.00 cylinder heads,the correct larger Solex carburetor with small air filter, the oil filter block with connections to the oil cooler and I myself made certain the camshaft was a proper 823.00 unit by sourcing a NOS part and having it installed when it was time for a rebuild. But my car will never be original; I have to satisfy myself with enjoying my experience behind the steering wheel instead of calculating how much money I could sell it for.
The one "cheat" I've always thought would be fun on my already non-original convertible would be to fit in a late 826.00 engine to make the car more broad-shouldered but without it being obvious upon opening the hood that I had "cheated."