Flaminia SS Zagato chassis numbers

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Randy Adams
Posts: 16
Joined: 10 Oct 2009, 17:19

Re: Flaminia SS Zagato chassis numbers

Unread post by Randy Adams »

I remember reading a story about a late Flaminia Touring coupe purchased as a new car after production had stopped. It was represented to be a new model. The buyer found the car to be equipped with tires that were several years old! That told the true story. By the mid-1960s it was very difficult to sell complicated, expensive, not exceptionally fast Flaminias. KenS, I would not be surprised if your car took a couple years to sell and was simply misrepresented by the dealer to be a current model rather than a car which languished for two years waiting for a buyer. A similar fate was met by the homologato Stratos in the next decade. Interesting story about the modified bodywork on early Super Sports. I'd always assumed that the cars had the old Sport body with the newer mechanical bits. It must have been horribly expensive to rework all of those bodies. Lancia were true champions at doing things the right way and losing money.
KenS
Posts: 10
Joined: 20 May 2015, 22:04

Re: Flaminia SS Zagato chassis numbers

Unread post by KenS »

At a recent concours, I met a gentleman who is well acquainted with Andrea Zagato and was going to ask him if he could shed any light on my SS Zagato. Hopefully Mr. Zagato will respond.
Ken
Pierre VALLADE
Posts: 255
Joined: 01 Oct 2009, 14:49
Location: Calvados/ Normandie / France

Re: Flaminia SS Zagato chassis numbers

Unread post by Pierre VALLADE »

Ken,

Regarding your second question ...

To my understanding, a car may have three different dates in case of a separate coachbuilder.
The first one is when the platform leaves Lancia factory, the second one when the coachbuilder ends his work and finally when a buyer registers the car.
For example, my Flaminia Touring is of 1964 Lancia point of vue, probably 1965 for Touring and 1968 for french official documents.
The documents I used were probably (but not fully sure), based on the date when the platform leaves Lancia factory.

If any one has the answer, it would be very fine.

Pierre VALLADE.
Aurelia B21, Flaminia GTL, Flavia Milleotto, 2000 coupé,
Beta HPE, Beta Trevi VX, Prisma 1.6, Kappa coupés 2.4 & T20, Thesis V6 3.0
Geoff
Posts: 103
Joined: 22 Dec 2008, 04:54

Re: Flaminia SS Zagato chassis numbers

Unread post by Geoff »

I've never seen factory build records for Zagato Flaminias, but in the 1950s, Lancia records for the B20s would list a date when the car was tested and complete by the factory. That is usually accepted as the finish date for the car. Subsequent arrival at a dealers, sale, and registration can be considered as "local" conditions, and are not well not reflected in manufacturer's documents. The difficulty is when inventory sits for a while, either at the factory or at the dealer, a situation not well accounted for in histories.
Geoff Goldberg

1952 B20 s.2
1957 B24 s.6
1959 Appia Berlina s.2
PG
Site Admin
Posts: 3215
Joined: 02 Jan 2009, 18:28

Re: Flaminia SS Zagato chassis numbers

Unread post by PG »

Pierre VALLADE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ken,
>
> Regarding your second question ...
>
> To my understanding, a car may have three
> different dates in case of a separate
> coachbuilder.
> The first one is when the platform leaves Lancia
> factory, the second one when the coachbuilder ends
> his work and finally when a buyer registers the
> car.
> For example, my Flaminia Touring is of 1964 Lancia
> point of vue, probably 1965 for Touring and 1968
> for french official documents.
> The documents I used were probably (but not fully
> sure), based on the date when the platform leaves
> Lancia factory.
>
> If any one has the answer, it would be very fine.
>
> Pierre VALLADE.

What you said is correct Pierre: the important thing is the production date of the chassis, not the body or the stock at the dealer. I know that the last sedans produced had been sold in early '70s.....
PG
Site Admin
Posts: 3215
Joined: 02 Jan 2009, 18:28

Re: Flaminia SS Zagato chassis numbers

Unread post by PG »

Ken, i spoke to Andrea 5 years ago: Zagato doesn't have anything about the Flaminias in the archive....

By the way, are you sure the splitted front bumper is original? Because the spoke wheels aren't.

In my database the 2088 is a 1966 production. Remember that doesn't mean anything if a 1965 chassis had been bodied 2 years later, Zagato bodied the car on demand and not by serial numbers. Moreover he took some chassis from Touring when the factory closed after the bankruptcy to complete the production.
Geoff
Posts: 103
Joined: 22 Dec 2008, 04:54

Re: Flaminia SS Zagato chassis numbers

Unread post by Geoff »

IN the mid-1970s I remember Quentin Marble had an SS in Washington DC and it had split bumpers. Likely original.
Geoff Goldberg

1952 B20 s.2
1957 B24 s.6
1959 Appia Berlina s.2
Laurent NASH
Posts: 12
Joined: 30 Oct 2017, 19:27

Re: Flaminia SS Zagato chassis numbers

Unread post by Laurent NASH »

Hello ,
I have checked in the archives and you will find below my results:

1) In the factory :

15 Zagatos Sport type 824 00 have been modified in Sport 824 13.

22 Sport type 824 13 have been modified in Supersport type 826 232

37 Sport 2.8 type 826 132 have been modified in Supersport type 826 232

2) These 74 cars are all different, never a car as been modified 2 times,

3) Finally there are only 150 Supersport cars made because the 59 modified are included in the 150 . It's the same thing for the Zagatos Sport

In this way : there are 150 Chassis numbers for 150 Supersport cars ! From 826232 2001 to 826232 2150 !!

And nobody knows a chassis number over the number 150 !!
.

4 ) All the modified cars have received an engine in according with the "final" type, For example all the Supersport ( 826 232 ) have a 826 200 engine.

So you understand why during a Supersport frame restoration you can find some traces of the modifications from a Sport.

If you have any question, I shall try to answer.

PS Sorry for my English.
Espresso
Posts: 2
Joined: 22 Dec 2008, 10:14

Re: Flaminia SS Zagato chassis numbers

Unread post by Espresso »

I fully agree with what Laurent has written on the chassis nos. While I don't know what sort of archives he could check, my comment is based on observation of the market and what has been published on the sale/auction or ownership of Supersport models. I have never come across a chassis no. higher than .2150 (actually, only today found a first trace of the last model produced, 2150).

One or two cars have popped up over the years with an engine 826.100, all the rest have 826.200 engines, but not always there was information on engine numbers. BTW, in all the data I have gathered, there is only one car with matching engine number.

And I have also observed that production (or maybe car registration) data does not strictly follow the chassis numbers (however one cannot always be sure of the quality of data publised in the web, e.g. by auction houses or car dealers). Looking at my data I would say that Ken's Zagato which started this discussion is a 1966 model, but of course the car/chassis might have been produced before. I own .2078 (engine 2077) and this car was produced and registered in 1965.

Cheers to all Lancia friends!
George
Huib
Site Admin
Posts: 1778
Joined: 17 Dec 2008, 10:12

Re: Flaminia SS Zagato chassis numbers

Unread post by Huib »

Good to see you back on the forum, George.
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