Leaky Valves, Low Compression. Many Problems?

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Vive les Fulvia
Posts: 20
Joined: 18 May 2020, 10:47

Re: Leaky Valves, Low Compression. Many Problems?

Unread post by Vive les Fulvia »

Quick update: The fuel pump diaphragm has a small tear, which goes some way to explain the oil dilution issue.

Carried out a second compression test and the values for cylinders #1 & #2 were slightly higher, 105psi per cylinder. #3 & #4 are unchanged at 80psi. So there's +20% difference which is higher than normal +10%.

I'm just finalising a gravity feed set up and will hopefully be completed by the end of the week.
Vive les Fulvia
Posts: 20
Joined: 18 May 2020, 10:47

Re: Leaky Valves, Low Compression. Many Problems?

Unread post by Vive les Fulvia »

Second update:

New fuel pump fitted, changed the engine oil (the volume had increased an additional 0.5ltrs since June and smelt like petrol :shock:), oil pressure is good, the carburettors have been cleaned and overhauled. The car is running much better. There is no longer any white smoke and a noticeable drop in rpm when each HT lead is removed. It is still not perfect because the drop is not even across all cylinders so still some tweaking needed, but an improvement none the less.

The car is off the road now because in Germany classic cars are insured for the spring/summer season. So I am very tempted to pull the engine and give it an overhaul during the autumn/winter because of the oil dilution and potential damage as a result. Also the magnetic sump plug had quite a bit of gunk which is also concerning.

Thanks for the help guys in getting her running again.
Huib
Site Admin
Posts: 1786
Joined: 17 Dec 2008, 10:12

Re: Leaky Valves, Low Compression. Many Problems?

Unread post by Huib »

If you do an engine job, remember to take out the 4 plugs from the crank shaft and clean the crank shaft inside.
Vive les Fulvia
Posts: 20
Joined: 18 May 2020, 10:47

Re: Leaky Valves, Low Compression. Many Problems?

Unread post by Vive les Fulvia »

Update

In the end I removed the engine and carried out a rebuild. Inspection of the engine after stripping showed that cylinder #1 had a deep gauge caused by corrosion. Cylinders #2. #3 & #4 were within spec but in need of a hone. The damage to cylinder #1 was so bad that a new liner was inserted. Pistons were measured and found to be within tolerance so re-used and along new rings installed

The head was skimmed, valve seats cut, new guides and oil stem seals installed. The valve angles were also ground and the diameters was still within tolerance. The head was not vacuum tested I did not replace was the head bolts.

Everything was put back together. Car started but immediately it was obvious something was not correct. Double checked the valve and ignition timing and everything appears to be good.

With the car running I partially block the carb venturis and there was no engine note change for #1 & #2. Blocking cylinders #3 & #4 altered the engine note. Carried out a compression test with the engine warm with the following results 75 80 125 127. #1 & #2 plugs were wet, #3 & #4 dry and light brown in colour

I am confused and somewhat as downbeat. I'll carry out a leak down test but has anyone get any pointers? Could it be stretched bolts not allowing for a good seal? cracked head? faulty head gasket, valve timing?
deltalxdoc
Posts: 1136
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 12:27

Re: Leaky Valves, Low Compression. Many Problems?

Unread post by deltalxdoc »

Check the valves clearance first (probably intake valves cil. 1 and 2 ?)
bmarler
Posts: 110
Joined: 22 Dec 2008, 17:33

Re: Leaky Valves, Low Compression. Many Problems?

Unread post by bmarler »

agree, checking valve gear closely would be the first thing to do. double check that the rocker shafts haven't pulled their threads too. see if you can fit a dial indicator on the valves to read the valve lift is correct and the cams are not worn.
if you are positive that the valves and cams are set right the head gasket would be my next suspect. the leak down should hopefully provide some insight as well.
Vive les Fulvia
Posts: 20
Joined: 18 May 2020, 10:47

Re: Leaky Valves, Low Compression. Many Problems?

Unread post by Vive les Fulvia »

Thank you both for the tips. I did check all the valve clearances for cylinders #1 & #'2 before posting last night and they were as per the manual. The rocker tightening nuts had not come loose.

I'll try and get hold of a dial gauge to measure the amount of lift.

In setting the valve timing this is what I did:

Aligned the 3 indicators (flywheel and two cam shaft mark). Then ensured the valve clearance was 1mm for #1 intake and exhaust valves.

Rotated the engine until there was 0.03mm valve clearance on the intake valve. Loosened the cam bolt, removed the dowel pin, re-attached the bolt and again rotated the engine, 2x full revolutions, until there was 0.03mm gap on the exhaust valve.

Loosened the exhaust cam bolt, removed the dowel pin and turned the engine again until the pistons were at TDC.

At this point the intake valve was opening and the exhaust closing. Adjusted the clearances on the other 6 valves

Inserted both dowel pins and torque tightened the bolts.

Is it possible that the reused head bolts could be problem?
bmarler
Posts: 110
Joined: 22 Dec 2008, 17:33

Re: Leaky Valves, Low Compression. Many Problems?

Unread post by bmarler »

anything is possible, but if the bolts came up to torque value without incident i would doubt they were the culprit. i would doublecheck the torque with a good quality torque wrench.
something has been missed somewhere. hopefully it's just on the top end.
i don't exactly understand your cam setting technique, exactly what series engine are we discussing? maybe huib will have a minute to look at that post and comment.
Vive les Fulvia
Posts: 20
Joined: 18 May 2020, 10:47

Re: Leaky Valves, Low Compression. Many Problems?

Unread post by Vive les Fulvia »

I'll borrow a torque wrench from a colleague to verify it the correct torque is applied.

The car is a S1 and the procedure was as per the manual, or my interpretation anyway
Vive les Fulvia
Posts: 20
Joined: 18 May 2020, 10:47

Re: Leaky Valves, Low Compression. Many Problems?

Unread post by Vive les Fulvia »

bmarler wrote: 30 Jun 2021, 14:56 anything is possible, but if the bolts came up to torque value without incident i would doubt they were the culprit. i would doublecheck the torque with a good quality torque wrench.
something has been missed somewhere. hopefully it's just on the top end.
i don't exactly understand your cam setting technique, exactly what series engine are we discussing? maybe huib will have a minute to look at that post and comment.
I doubled checked the torque of the head bolts with another wrench and the original torque was correct.

Performed a leak down test which confirmed that there was a high leakage past the rings. The cylinder head is off and the pistons out. The rings were all still intact. The rings were new, albeit from a supplier with not the best reputation for quality. The high leakage was probably a result of too large a gap when setting up the piston rings.

New rings order from a reputable classic Lancia supplier are on order.

Thanks for the helpful advice
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