Greetings All, from Tulsa, Oklahoma
I had a bad central tie rod on my '68 S1 Fulvia 1.3 Rallye. It was tricky to remove, mostly because I'd never done it before, but it all came out after about an hour once I picked the right tools. The new one, which measured exactly the same, went in without any sweat.
Strange thing. Putting the central tie rod in was a snap. When I drove, the steering wheel wasn't "centered," when driving straight, as illustrated by the photo. I also seem to have two full turns of rotation from driving straight to the steering lock on the right, but only 1.5 turns on the left. Also, when the steering wheel is held centered, the left wheel is apparently straight, while the right wheel is definitely making a bit of a left turn, that is, it's toed in noticeably. Is it possible to get the tie rod in and have the steering off? Other than this peculiarity, she drives like a dream. Strange. So, as usual, any useful input is appreciated.
Fulvia S1 steering.
Re: Fulvia S1 steering.
Good to hear you like the car.
The bend in the central track rod is to prevent it from hitting the gear shift yoke on top of the gear box when turning full right or full left
There may be several reasons that the straight position of the wheels no longer corresponds with a horizontal position of the steering wheel.
One possible reason is that Sandro Munari fiddled with the car when you were not looking. He liked to have the steering wheel in the position you show in the picture. His hand was closer to the shift stick. It saved a fraction of a second when shifting gears.
More likely there are other causes such as the central track rods not having exactly the same length. Because of the short steering arms on the swivels a mm of difference on the track rods results in several mm on the rims. Other causes are the suspension ball joints, the other track rod ends, idler box, bushes of the wishbones.
Let’s focus on the adjust procedure in this posting. The steering box is the worm and roller type. In the center there is a section where there is no play. Or rather there is a section where the steering box can be adjusted to have no play. If you steer away from driving straight the play increases. That is perfectly okay as the centrifugal force will push the car to one site and neutralize the play. What you want is that driving straight corresponds with the center position of the steering box and with the steering wheel being straight.
Here in the Netherlands we have to go to the tire shop for wheel alignment. The guy operating the equipment is a very nice person who does not know anything about steering boxes. He puts the steering wheel in the horizontal position, follows the instructions on the computer screen and adjusts the outer track rods in such a way that toe out is in the green and equal left and right. The car will now drive straight with the steering wheel horizontal.
The home work you have to do is to make sure that the center position of the steering box corresponds with the horizontal position of the steering wheel.
The short input shaft of the steering box has a flat spot where the lock bolt sits. This spot should be at appr. half past eleven. That is close enough to the center position. You can verify it by the looking at the 4 M8 bolts through the Hardy disc. When the steering box is in its center position these are exactly north, east, south, west. Now check if the steering wheel is straight. If not, take it off and put it back on in the correct position.
Drive to the alignment shop. They will adjust the outer track rods so that they are both equally in the green. Whether this is correct or not depends how the data was put in the computer. The mechanic at the shop just uses red and green. He has no clue whether the car should have toe in or toe out or what the figures should be. I always keep a sharp eye on the screen and make sure that for the Rallye 1.3 the toe out is -05 to -08 minutes per wheel.
Note that this is static. When you drive the car a few dozen of horses are working on it. This may cause quite a bit of play on other steering and suspension parts.
Ask for a print out from the alignment shop and post it here. I am curious to see how these look in Tulsa Oklahoma.
If checking for play don’t forget the hardy disc. It is often called the canvas disc. This is misleading as the job is done by thin spring steel segments hidden inside the canvas. If these have rusted away the canvas layers start to separate and the canvas will tear. Note that all replacement Hardy discs for Fulvia and Flavia I have seen on the market do not have the spring steel sections inside. Mounting those is suicidal.
Summarizing
1. Put steering box in center position. (flat spot on input shaft at half past eleven. Bolts through canvas disc N E S W)
2. Check if steering wheel is horizontal. If not take it off and put it back in correct position.
3. Go to alignment shop and align front wheel such that driving straight corresponds with steering wheel in horizontal position.
4. Post print out in this thread.
Say hello to Toly on the way.
The bend in the central track rod is to prevent it from hitting the gear shift yoke on top of the gear box when turning full right or full left
There may be several reasons that the straight position of the wheels no longer corresponds with a horizontal position of the steering wheel.
One possible reason is that Sandro Munari fiddled with the car when you were not looking. He liked to have the steering wheel in the position you show in the picture. His hand was closer to the shift stick. It saved a fraction of a second when shifting gears.
More likely there are other causes such as the central track rods not having exactly the same length. Because of the short steering arms on the swivels a mm of difference on the track rods results in several mm on the rims. Other causes are the suspension ball joints, the other track rod ends, idler box, bushes of the wishbones.
Let’s focus on the adjust procedure in this posting. The steering box is the worm and roller type. In the center there is a section where there is no play. Or rather there is a section where the steering box can be adjusted to have no play. If you steer away from driving straight the play increases. That is perfectly okay as the centrifugal force will push the car to one site and neutralize the play. What you want is that driving straight corresponds with the center position of the steering box and with the steering wheel being straight.
Here in the Netherlands we have to go to the tire shop for wheel alignment. The guy operating the equipment is a very nice person who does not know anything about steering boxes. He puts the steering wheel in the horizontal position, follows the instructions on the computer screen and adjusts the outer track rods in such a way that toe out is in the green and equal left and right. The car will now drive straight with the steering wheel horizontal.
The home work you have to do is to make sure that the center position of the steering box corresponds with the horizontal position of the steering wheel.
The short input shaft of the steering box has a flat spot where the lock bolt sits. This spot should be at appr. half past eleven. That is close enough to the center position. You can verify it by the looking at the 4 M8 bolts through the Hardy disc. When the steering box is in its center position these are exactly north, east, south, west. Now check if the steering wheel is straight. If not, take it off and put it back on in the correct position.
Drive to the alignment shop. They will adjust the outer track rods so that they are both equally in the green. Whether this is correct or not depends how the data was put in the computer. The mechanic at the shop just uses red and green. He has no clue whether the car should have toe in or toe out or what the figures should be. I always keep a sharp eye on the screen and make sure that for the Rallye 1.3 the toe out is -05 to -08 minutes per wheel.
Note that this is static. When you drive the car a few dozen of horses are working on it. This may cause quite a bit of play on other steering and suspension parts.
Ask for a print out from the alignment shop and post it here. I am curious to see how these look in Tulsa Oklahoma.
If checking for play don’t forget the hardy disc. It is often called the canvas disc. This is misleading as the job is done by thin spring steel segments hidden inside the canvas. If these have rusted away the canvas layers start to separate and the canvas will tear. Note that all replacement Hardy discs for Fulvia and Flavia I have seen on the market do not have the spring steel sections inside. Mounting those is suicidal.
Summarizing
1. Put steering box in center position. (flat spot on input shaft at half past eleven. Bolts through canvas disc N E S W)
2. Check if steering wheel is horizontal. If not take it off and put it back in correct position.
3. Go to alignment shop and align front wheel such that driving straight corresponds with steering wheel in horizontal position.
4. Post print out in this thread.
Say hello to Toly on the way.
