Girling brake caliper refurbish

CD's with documentationElectronic distributor
Overknasten
Posts: 69
Joined: 18 May 2016, 22:06

Re: Girling brake caliper refurbish

Unread post by Overknasten »

I just ordered the tool today no more beating around the bush.
Thanks for the tip with the cables I’ll give them a good workout as well.
Huib
Site Admin
Posts: 1778
Joined: 17 Dec 2008, 10:12

Re: Girling brake caliper refurbish

Unread post by Huib »

At the front the bearing is in the swivel.
At the rear the bearing is in the hub and can stay in the hub. No need to operate on the large ring retaining the bearing in the hub.

Note, on the S2 the castellated ring is thin and of low quality steel. Using the tool and a high power impact gun destroys the ring. At least it always does when I try to loosen the ring.

Only take off the axle nut in the center and pull off hub with attached disc

The lining of the hand brake does wear. Also in many cases it has rusted off. Good idea to do the hand brake as well. Nearly always all the small bits and pieces have rusted. Blast them and zinc plate so that everything slides easily again. Most likely you need a (new) cable with an eye. The eye (of cables available today) does not fit on the lever. Before you zinc plate all the parts reshape the hook on the lever so the eye of the cable fits.

When you assemble again, push the hub back on by pushing on the inner ring of the axle nut. If not the split inner ring will come out of the bearing. You then do have to take out the bearing to reassemble it.

Don't confuse the adjustments. The adjust wheel between the shoes at the bottom of the drum is to adjust for wear on the lining, NOT for adjusting slack on the cable.
The M6 adjust bolt on the rod from the lever is to adjust for slack on the cable, not to adjust for wear on the lining.

After assembly, the adjustment is a two step thing.

First rough adjustment
With the cable slack adjust the wheel in the hub so that the hub no longer moves. Back off 1/8 of a turn.
Put lever at the 4th click.
Lying under the car I wobble the disc with my foot. Adjust cable till disc no longer moves.
Pull the lever with force several times (to properly center the shoes).

Fine adjustment.
Put lever down. Make sure cable has slack. Operate nut inside drum at the bottom till disc no longer moves. Back off 1/8 of a turn. You did this in the first step too, but now the shoes are centered better.

Put lever in second click. Wobble disc with foot while adjusting cable till disc no longer moves.
Put lever down.
If the discs moves reasonably free it is ok. It does not have to move completely free of the shoes. If you start driving it will move freely within a few 100 meters. You have to use your feeling there.
Overknasten
Posts: 69
Joined: 18 May 2016, 22:06

Re: Girling brake caliper refurbish

Unread post by Overknasten »

Thanks a lot for the advice. I tried the new tool with my impact power tool = very bad idea, the catellated retaining ring starts to bend, you were absolutely right about the poor metal quality (and thin wall thickness).
Back again to loosen the inner ring and at the same time I finally found the small adjustment wheels and back them fully. With a puller tool and a socket top that allowed the bearing to pass i finally got it all off. Everyhing looks just old but no severe rust or wear!!! as if it has just been waiting for me to disassemble after 40+ years - strange. I also took the "anchor" plates of, blasted and painted them. Now everything has been cleaned and painted so it is time to put most of the things back again.
Unfortunately I have to make a copy of the large "bolt" where the brake pads is joining in the top, when I tried to take it off the slitted lock nut was stuck in a way so that when I finally got it off the thread was also gone....very irritating given the fact that the parts are almost with no wear.
I have tried to find a replacement bolt but it is no where to be found so I must make a new one. Alternatively I will alter the riuned thread to a smaller diameter on my lathe and make M8x1 instead of the ?? thread it is almost like M10x1,25 but I suspect it to be inch thread.
Why are these bolts so overdimensioned? I mean it is only the top pivoting point for the handbrake - not the main brake system.

If anyone knows where to buy a new one offcourse I would prefer that.

#Huib: Thanks a lot for the very thorough explanation on how the do the readjustment. It is highly appreciated.

to be continued..........
bmarler
Posts: 110
Joined: 22 Dec 2008, 17:33

Re: Girling brake caliper refurbish

Unread post by bmarler »

good to hear you're making progress. bad to hear about the pivot bolt. i wonder if lancia simply cribbed the shoes from some other application and needed the pivot to fit.
in any case, you have the tool to save the day. i think i would be very tempted to just turn and re-thread the original bolt and use a fender washer and lock nut of a smaller size. i'm nut sure if the bolt is a high grade or not, you could check with a file to see how easy it cuts. i don't have s2 so i'm not sure how the bolt fits in the assembly but i think there must be a shoulder where the nut secures the blot. you would have to judge whether the modified bolt could work.
maybe omicron or another supplier has these in stock too and can save you the trouble.
Overknasten
Posts: 69
Joined: 18 May 2016, 22:06

Re: Girling brake caliper refurbish

Unread post by Overknasten »

Good point about the quality of the bolt - I will ask Omicron if they have it or know where to buy it, for sure these brakesystems must have been used by other car brands as well.
If not I will make a new one in stainless steel, that should be OK given the size of the bolt.
Overknasten
Posts: 69
Joined: 18 May 2016, 22:06

Re: Girling brake caliper refurbish

Unread post by Overknasten »

Almost there but..........
I got a "new" bolt from Omicron, had to shorten it 2 mm. on my lathe but now everything is in place and the handbrake is adjusted to perfection - thansk a million for the super instruction.
BUT, but i have problems with the bleeding.
I have used a small vaccum system for this and I followed the instruction in the Q & A. Front caliber bleeding seemed to go well brakefluid flowing without air.
I checked the reservoir and it never got below half full during the procedure.
I shifted to bleeeding the rear calibers and I am having a lot of air and almost no fuid is coming through?
I tried to pump the pedal and there is no pressure, the pedal goes to the floor!
I didn´t put the ignition on but then again I dont´t think the brake servo unit has anything to do with this.
The car is on axle stands so the brakelimiter should be engaged.
What am I doing wrong?
bmarler
Posts: 110
Joined: 22 Dec 2008, 17:33

Re: Girling brake caliper refurbish

Unread post by bmarler »

usually when i bleed the entire system i will start at the master cylinder and make sure it's vented completely. then i move to the calipers. i will place an open top container at each corner with a tube from the bleeders into the container. open the bleeders and let gravity do the work. when i have fluid coming from all the bleeders i will close them. then at the furthest from the master i will open them one at a time and either vacuum or pressure bleed them one at a time, working from furthest away to closest. keep the reservoir full the entire time. then check the pedal. give it a few pushes. if it feels fairly good, give it some firm pushes. this usually gets any air to push into the lines and you can start again at the calipers. it can take a few rounds of this to clear all of the air from the system. it takes patience and quite a bit of fluid to completely vent the system.
this is a general method. some cars respond better to starting at the front, or using a different bleeding order, but my method usually works very well.
Overknasten
Posts: 69
Joined: 18 May 2016, 22:06

Re: Girling brake caliper refurbish

Unread post by Overknasten »

After 2 hours of brake bleeding nothing has happened. I can’t get real pressure in the brake pedal it’s not in the floor anymore but close to. I keep draining a bit of fluid and a lot of air when I bleed the rear calibers but never gets better.
Something is definitely not working as supposed to but dammed if I can figure out what the problem is.
Have I done something wrong when I reassembled the rear Calibers?
The strange thing is that everything goes fine when bleeding the 2 in the front.
I am stuck.
bmarler
Posts: 110
Joined: 22 Dec 2008, 17:33

Re: Girling brake caliper refurbish

Unread post by bmarler »

you must be introducing air into the system somewhere. this can be anywhere in the system so take a systematic approach to it. i like to start at the beginning and work to the end. try the fitting at the master cylinder and see if you get air there. if not, move on through the system and test at each fitting to find the problem. if you can pump the pedal and it eventually comes up firm then it's just more air to vent. if it doesn't get progressively better with each consecutive push of the pedal then it's highly possible to have a problem with the master cylinder.
most issues happen at places with seals. the master cylinder, the proportional valve (if it has one) and calipers. the master is the place where most errors are made, or tiny passages remain blocked, or seals are installed backwards, etc...
Huib
Site Admin
Posts: 1778
Joined: 17 Dec 2008, 10:12

Re: Girling brake caliper refurbish

Unread post by Huib »

I agree with bmarler. I scanned the thread quickly and could not find anything about the master cylinder.

First of all you MUST have an original mbc. The Super Duplex system as on the 2nd series Fulvia requires volumes of the two chambers which are different from simple Duplex systems.
If you do have a non-original mbc, replace it or connect the the wheel brake cylinders in such a way that it becomes a Duplex system.

I am very quick to replace mbc's which are over 40 years old. Even a NOS one which has been on the shelf for over 40 years I would not trust.

Be aware that on the new mbc parts are used that are not resistant to brake fluid. Among those parts are the plastic parts inside the container for the float and also the O ring at the base of mbc. I replace those with EPDM O-rings.

If you still want to try the old one, check if the two parts of the 2nd (counting from the pedal) plunger still slide.

Check if all the lines are connected correctly. The first (counting from pedal) chamber serves the 8 small cylinders, 4 at the front, 4 at the back. The 2nd chamber serves the 4 bigger ones at the front. Make sure you connect them same way when reinstalling a mbc.

I suggest to take apart the mbc and post photo's here. Consider opening a new thread.
Post Reply

Return to “65 Fulvia”